# Advocating violence and terrorism. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 3, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004 "2020-06-03T20:11:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/21 "2020-06-03T20:45:32Z")
So, mods, are you going to let [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=773012) thread stand.? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/22 "2020-06-04T11:27:43Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The guy is proudly describing how his organization uses violence as a political tool. This only proves he’s American. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/23 "2020-06-04T13:08:14Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > He is talking about burning government buildings and about violent revolution. There’s nowhere in the thread where he advocates revolution. Why did you make this demonstrably false statement? Was it accidental or intentional? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/24 "2020-06-04T13:22:09Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > So, mods, are you going to let [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=897469) thread stand? How did the mods respond when you reported it? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/25 "2020-06-04T14:31:36Z")
I received the report. I haven’t had time to look at the thread, and don’t have time now. If things go well I will look at it this afternoon. Apologies for the delay in getting to post reports. Sometimes real life gets busy. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/26 "2020-06-04T15:48:31Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > There’s nowhere in the thread where he advocates revolution. > > Why did you make this demonstrably false statement? Was it accidental or intentional? He says: “still, the tie that binds for anti-fascists is to fight fascism by any means necessary, including violence. philosophically it’s based in the reality that the vast, vast majority of nonviolent protest throughout human history is unsuccessful. most folks can name dozens of violent revolutions but few can name more then two nonviolent ones.” And he explictly lists murder as one of the forms of violence that Antifa can use: “I could definitely tighten up my definitions here. I’m using “violence” broadly, to refer to a range of actions from murder to “silence is violence”.” ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/27 "2020-06-04T16:15:09Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > He says: > “still, the tie that binds for anti-fascists is to fight fascism by any means necessary, including violence. philosophically it’s based in the reality that the vast, vast majority of nonviolent protest throughout human history is unsuccessful. most folks can name dozens of violent revolutions but few can name more then two nonviolent ones.” > And he explictly lists murder as one of the forms of violence that Antifa can use: > “I could definitely tighten up my definitions here. I’m using “violence” broadly, to refer to a range of actions from murder to “silence is violence”.” It’s an untenable stretch to twist this into “advocating for violent revolution”. We’re gonna need a much bigger mop if we want to clean up all the threads that philosophically, theoretically discuss when extrajudicial violence may be justified (see: a hundred different threads with pro-gun vigilante fantasies). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/28 "2020-06-05T14:58:07Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s an untenable stretch to twist this into “advocating for violent revolution”. > > We’re gonna need a much bigger mop if we want to clean up all the threads that philosophically, theoretically discuss when extrajudicial violence may be justified (see: a hundred different threads with pro-gun vigilante fantasies). Right. And that’s one of the factors mentioned in other threads about the “advocating violence” rule–that leeway has to be made for philosophical and political discussions. If it weren’t, then even discussing the death penalty would violate the rules. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/29 "2020-06-05T15:46:11Z")
In my opinion, the OP in that thread is ethically dubious. I think his line of thought is almost identical to that of the fascists he thinks he’s fighting. I think there is a nontrivial probability that he and his colleagues are going to get innocent people killed. (David Dorn, for example.) The fact that his worldview is so popular is one of the big reasons that I will probably vote for Trump this November. But I think that the thread should stay open. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/30 "2020-06-05T21:37:58Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > In my opinion, the OP in that thread is ethically dubious. I think his line of thought is almost identical to that of the fascists he thinks he’s fighting. I think there is a nontrivial probability that he and his colleagues are going to get innocent people killed. (David Dorn, for example.) > > The fact that his worldview is so popular is one of the big reasons that I will probably vote for Trump this November. > > But I think that the thread should stay open. This isn’t the place for political debate, I know. But you’re offering political argument here, so I’m going to give a very brief response, pointing out that your logic is bad. If you think that Antifa is just as bad as the other side, then it makes no sense to vote for that other side. It would make sense to vote for those who are both not Antifa and not fascists. And there is only one candidate for president in this election that fits that bill. (And it’s not Trump). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/31 "2020-06-06T00:43:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hopefully you’ll catch a warning for namecalling in that thread, but other than that, it’s an interesting thread that helps people understand an important issue at the forefront of national discussion. If you’re banned from the thread for your personal attacks, it can continue in an interesting manner. You keep throwing those insults, don’t you? That’s what needs modding in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/32 "2020-06-06T01:08:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You keep throwing those insults, don’t you? Which insults are those? Are you willing to let your property be destroyed, too, or just other people’s property? That no action has been taken on the thread celebrating violence (up to murder) is a clear illustration that this board is selective in which “advocating illegal activities” they close and which they don’t. Advocate telling soldiers not to kill people? Not okay. Advocating domestic terrorism? A-ok. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/33 "2020-06-06T01:14:15Z")
You straight up called the OP a terrorist, and you told me I lack courage, because you invented a stupid belief to ascribe to me, and think I’m a coward because of that dumb belief. Not copacetic. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/34 "2020-06-06T01:25:18Z")
I called Antifa terrorists because he described the terrorist activities of Antifa. I said you lack the courage of your convictions because you are willing to have _other_ people’s property destroyed for your politics but not your own. If I get warned or suspended for those facts, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/35 "2020-06-06T02:01:02Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I said you lack the courage of your convictions because you are willing to have _other_ people’s property destroyed for your politics but not your own. The view you invented to assign to me isn’t one I hold, but as I understand the rules, that should be irrelevant. Your behavior is not okay. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/36 "2020-06-06T02:32:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The view you invented to assign to me isn’t one I hold You stated that arguments opposing vandalism were “silliness.” ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/37 "2020-06-06T02:33:07Z")
I think it’s an important debate and I’m glad the conversation is happening. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/38 "2020-06-06T02:49:40Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I think it’s an important debate and I’m glad the conversation is happening. To me it just seems to be leaning way out of the [Overton window](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/39 "2020-06-06T07:06:55Z")
How is this any different than **SmashtheState**? I don’t believe the mods had a problem with him talking about his beliefs and actions. (He was only banned for threatening to sue the place) ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004/40 "2020-06-08T02:33:50Z")
Do we have mods on this board? This is something you have think over? If this flies here you might have some deep, deep problems. > [@I'm a member of Antifa](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-member-of-antifa/854983/9): > > The bouncer analogy is pretty cool, and I appreciate you sharing it! still, the tie that binds for anti-fascists is to fight fascism by any means necessary, including violence. philosophically it’s based in the reality that the vast, vast majority of nonviolent protest throughout human history is unsuccessful. most folks can name dozens of violent revolutions but few can name more then two nonviolent ones. Antifa would love to have a movement similar in scope and effectiveness to the NSK and Laibach but we ideologically don’t believe it’s possible in the US. this willingness to use violence as well as nonviolent methods is what separates us from BLM and Communist movements et al. > [@I'm a member of Antifa](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-a-member-of-antifa/854983/32): > > I could definitely tighten up my definitions here. I’m using “violence” broadly, to refer to a range of actions from murder to “silence is violence”. Within that range, I’m assigning relative values to different kinds of violence, rather than creating a violent/nonviolent dichotomy. Most people do this, consciously or not, but I’m not sure how consistent I’ve been. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advocating-violence-and-terrorism/855004.md?page=3)