# AFA Condemns Day of Silence **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 11, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029 "2008-03-11T22:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/21 "2008-03-12T00:57:10Z")
Friend **Aptonym** is absolutely right in this respect: the thing that gives civil disobedience its moral force is not mere refusal of individuals to obey the law, it’s their willing acceptance of the penalty for breaking it. No other course asserts individual rights while recognizing (and, frankly, pleading for the exercise of) society’s role in protecting them. Unfortunately, there’s just no junior course in civil disobedience – by the time it’s necessary, it’s past time for the safety nets, and your conscience is your only shield. I never got to that point, but I can easily imagine my children there. ---
**Author:** ![aptronym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@aptronym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aptronym)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/22 "2008-03-12T01:22:16Z")
[QUOTE=Manda JO] as a classroom teacher, I don’t find individuals observing a day of silence to be particularly disruptive. [/QUOTE] I think it could be if it happened too often. What if a student doesn’t do his homework and decides to invent a National Day of Protest for a fictitious cause? When I was a TA, I made the rules simple: just about anything would be excused with two conditions. (1) That the work would be made up, preferably in advance; and (2) that any consequences of missing class (good reason or bad) were the student’s responsibility. If I chose to give a pop quiz and they were absent, they had no right to complain. (I never did.) > [@ArizonaTeach](#): > > it was explicitly stated that particpation in class in response to direct questions by teachers was permitted I think this makes sense, especially in things like language classes where class participation may be integral to the class. > [@The King of Soup](#): > > Unfortunately, there’s just no junior course in civil disobedience I think examples of good protests would help in that regard. People today, especially here in the SF Bay Area, grow up with this notion that the point of a protest is to “get away with it” and to “stir shit up” because, honestly, that’s what everyone does. Then they wonder why nobody respects them and their natural conclusion is that they aren’t stirring enough shit up. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/23 "2008-03-12T01:22:38Z")
Every year when I create my list for the SDMB Death Pool, I base my choices on who I think will pass that year, with no thought toward whether or not I’d _like_ to see that happen. There is one exception to this rule – my final pick each and every year: > [@Hal Briston](#): > > 1. Reverend Donald Wildmon - Raging Douchebag ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/24 "2008-03-12T02:20:50Z")
[QUOTE=aptronym] I think it could be if it happened too often. What if a student doesn’t do his homework and decides to invent a National Day of Protest for a fictitious cause? [/QUOTE] What you do if they suddenly decide they are Ba’hai or Wiccan or something and must have a holiday off–you call them on their bullshit and move on. Even at a complete extreme–a kid’s taken a vow of silence for the whole year or something–I am sure I could find a way to work around it. You never answered any of my questions–if I know half my class will be out for Good Friday (likely) and so avoid scheduling a major test or crucial class discussion, is that “implicitly endorsing” a religion? Is honoring an Eagle Scout’s day of silence “implicitly endorsing” the boy scouts? ETA: And you weren’t the one I asked that. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/25 "2008-03-12T04:43:10Z")
[QUOTE=Manda JO] Is honoring an Eagle Scout’s day of silence “implicitly endorsing” the boy scouts? [/QUOTE] It could be, I guess. If you have two kids who are engaging in a day of silence, one because of his Eagle Scout project, and the other just because he wants to be a smartass, and you punish the smartass and not the Eagle Scout, then you’re giving the Eagle Scout a speciial status, and implying that his silence for the Eagle Scout position is justifiable. The same is true about not scheduling a test on Good Friday. On the one hand, you’re acting pragmatically, but on the other hand, you’re basically telling the students "Practicing your religion is a valid excuse to miss miss my class (and I get the impression that if you did have a test on Good Friday, and students missed it for religious reasons, you’d let them have a makeup test). ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/26 "2008-03-12T04:57:55Z")
Donald Wildmon never fails to remind everyone about what a total sack of shit he is. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/27 "2008-03-12T05:05:02Z")
[QUOTE=Manda JO] Boy scouts do it: This year, I had a student who, prior to his Eagle Scout Ceremony, had to observe a day of silence. He showed me a letter explaining to and I didn’t call on him that day. When they were working in groups on a analytical chart, he worked by himself, which worked fine. I don’t know if this was something only his troop does, but if it is standard, I suspect it’s allowed in most schools and that certainly takes the wind out the “too disruptive, can’t be allowed” idea. [/QUOTE] My daughter’s boyfriend got an Eagle, and he didn’t do it. It’s kind of an odd thing. We were silent for most of a day for the Order of the Arrow ordeal, but that was in camp, not in school. I think being silent in class is much more effective than staying home. First of all it drives the point across, without doing something that might be appealing for the kid. I got a question - is texting allowed? If yes, lots of kids would hardly notice they were silent. And hats off to Doper teachers for being so receptive. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/28 "2008-03-12T13:13:13Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Mr. Wildmon, an Alabama resident, is a former Methodist minister, I believe defrocked by the United Methodist Church [/quote] Could I have a cite that he was defrocked? Since we agree that bearing false witness is a sin, I would hope that care would be taken not to engage in it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/29 "2008-03-12T15:26:42Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Could I have a cite that he was defrocked? Since we agree that bearing false witness is a sin, I would hope that care would be taken not to engage in it. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] As far as I know, he left the pastoral ministry to start the National Federation for Decency (which is the precursor of the AFA). I’ve never seen a cite that he was defrocked. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/30 "2008-03-12T15:27:51Z")
I have to say, though, that I am encouraged that the stay-at-home group seems to have done a fairly good job of characterizing their opponents. > [@](#): > > DOS is sponsored by an activist homosexual group, the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN). DOS leads the students to believe that every person who identifies as a homosexual, bisexual or cross-dresser is a victim of ongoing, unrelenting harassment and hate. Students are taught that homosexuality is a worthy lifestyle, homosexuality has few or no risks, and individuals are born homosexual and cannot change. Those who oppose such teaching are characterized as ignorant and hateful bigots. I am not quite sure what they mean by “few or no risks”, but other than that it seems like a pretty good description, I would be for it. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/31 "2008-03-12T15:30:14Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Could I have a cite that he was defrocked? Since we agree that bearing false witness is a sin, I would hope that care would be taken not to engage in it. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] That’s why I said “I believe” – I had read that he had been, for refusal to pastor a charge instead of carrying out his “ministry,” but not from a reliable source. So I echoed it as an allegation I was not positive of but gave initial presumption of accuracy to. If you have information one way or the other, I’d like to know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/32 "2008-03-12T15:35:33Z")
Let me get this straight. If it’s a “minute of silence”, then the atheists get all bent out of shape. But if it’s a “day of silence”, then the Christians get all bent out of shape. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/33 "2008-03-12T15:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by \*\*ntucker > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Bricker > > I don’t really see how being silent promots the “homosexual agenda,” however. > > Presumably anything that attempts to stand in the way of good heteros kicking the crap out of the gays is considered “promoting the homosexual agenda.” They’re not the only ones who feel that way, unfortunately. The Charlotte(NC)-Mecklenburg County school system just passed an [anti-bullying policy](http://www.charlotte.com/408/story/532543.html) that was opposed by “Christian conservatives.” (The article’s words.) > [@](#): > > Christian conservatives urged the board not to, voicing concerns that the policy will promote homosexuality. The opposing view seems to be, let the bullies alone, they’re keeping kids from turning gay. :rolleyes: ETA: Meant to emphasize that the CMS board passed the policy at least. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/34 "2008-03-12T16:07:24Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] That’s why I said “I believe” – I had read that he had been, for refusal to pastor a charge instead of carrying out his “ministry,” but not from a reliable source. So I echoed it as an allegation I was not positive of but gave initial presumption of accuracy to. If you have information one way or the other, I’d like to know for sure. [/QUOTE] A cursory Google of “Wildmon defrocked” finds nothing, nor is there any mention of it in his Wiki entry. Difficult to prove a negative, of course. I would have thought the burden of proof is on those making the allegation. But that’s just me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/35 "2008-03-12T16:27:24Z")
> [@](#): > > If your child’s school observes the homosexual sponsored “Day of Silence,” keep your child at home April 25. Or you could send your kid to school and instruct him/her to giggle, jabber and scream into their cellphone non-stop. Except it’d be hard to distinguish that sort of protest from a typical day at school. Now that the AFA has ceased its boycott of Ford for Promoting the Homosexual Agenda, I’m glad to note that we bought our Ford while the company was still Evil. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/36 "2008-03-12T16:28:34Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] One of my personal favorites from the good ole AFA (through their [Onenewsnow.com](http://Onenewsnow.com) website) is that they are against Proctor and Gamble right now. The reason? P&G owns the soap opera As The World Turns and a gay couple has been added to the show. AFA stresses that they are NOT seeking a boycott (at this time) but wants to see how they respond to requests to drop the gay characters. According to the AFA, this would constitute staying neutral in the ‘culture war’. [/QUOTE] I thought they were against P&G because they were supposedly Satanic, due to their logo? ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/37 "2008-03-12T18:54:47Z")
Last year, some of my kids at work participated in the Day of Silence. While at school, they only answered direct teacher questions (apparently this was what the school would permit, which is really the point of this post). When they got to work, they tried not to talk at all. Yeah. Not gonna work in customer service jobs, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/38 "2008-03-12T19:34:20Z")
If I were gay, I’d be so confused right now. First the Christian right wants them to shut up about their “agenda”, and then when they all promise to shut up, this guy jumps on them for _that_! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/39 "2008-03-13T11:15:21Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] I thought they were against P&G because they were supposedly Satanic, due to their logo? [/QUOTE] No well-known Christian/conservative person or group got into that. In fact, at the time that story was raging along, Falwell, through the Moral Majority newspaper, and Robertson, on The 700 Club, both debunked it. Also, the Amway Corp. debunked it but P&G traced promotion (tho not origin) of the story to some Amway distributors and sued them for defamation. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029/40 "2008-03-13T13:31:04Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] A cursory Google of “Wildmon defrocked” finds nothing, nor is there any mention of it in his Wiki entry. Difficult to prove a negative, of course. I would have thought the burden of proof is on those making the allegation. But that’s just me. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] A search of the [United Methodist Church](http://www.umc.org) website doesn’t turns up anything about Wildmon being defrocked. It does turn up a petition from 2004 titled [Regarding Rev. Donald Wildmon (40846-CS-R9999)](http://archives.umc.org/Calms/petition.asp?mid=2886&Petition=846). The petition was: > [@](#): > > That we commend Rev. Donald Wildmon for his efforts in the reduction of the promotion of promiscuous sex, especially outside of marriage on television and to reduce violence in television. The committee (Church and Society) recommended non-concurrence by a vote of 86-0, with the Plenary upholding that by a vote of 864-44. The fact that the UMC still refers to him as “Rev” indicates to me that he hasn’t be defrocked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afa-condemns-day-of-silence/441029.md?page=3)