# Affirmative action in the schools? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 3, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmative-action-in-the-schools/498529 "2009-06-03T01:09:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmative-action-in-the-schools/498529/61 "2009-06-12T16:37:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So my question, or rather, three questions: > > 1. Is it worth making an extra effort to get black men into elementary schools, to provide black boys with some academic role models? > 2. If it is, what would be the best way to do that? (This would also be a good place to address some of the powerful reasons why there aren’t more black men in schools). 1. Probably. Adding similar aged peers as role models would be a nice addition to your recipe. 2. As far away from educator’s unions as possible. Like the [Harlem Children’s Zone](http://www.hcz.org/what-is-hcz) charter schools. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmative-action-in-the-schools/498529/62 "2009-06-13T02:06:20Z")
> [@](#): > > **monstro** : Style of discipline is a outgrowth of culture; what works for a white child from a particular demographic isn’t going to necessarily work for a black child of another. As a kid, we all knew which teachers not to fuck around with, and sorry to say, but most of them were either black or “ethnic” white (like Jewish). WASP teachers tended to be great with the well-behaved kids and could engender respect from the borderline kids, but they were clueless with the straight-up bad-asses. Black teachers weren’t afraid to cuss your ass out and call your mother right in the middle of class, so the whole class could be privy to your humliation. It’s a good thing that your comments are based on your limited experience. If what you claim were true in all cases, black teachers would soon be out of the profession altogether. Cussing students and humiliating them is considered “Conduct unbecoming a professional.” You may think that it works with black students, but research shows that humiliation is not an effective teaching technique. It breeds hostility. The teacher can be fired for doing that even if she or he has tenure. > [@](#): > > **monstro** : I don’t remember anyone talking back or being disruptive in the classes where the black men were the teachers. Then why were they being cussed at? > [@](#): > > **monstro** : it made me feel proud that he was there making all those smarty-pant white kids sweat. Your statement sounds like you relished watching white students feel uncomfortable. I think that basically we are all a lot more alike than we are different. I was usually “the one” in my classroom, but I never felt that way. These students were used to having white teachers a lot – especially in English classes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmative-action-in-the-schools/498529/63 "2009-06-13T13:03:31Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > It’s a good thing that your comments are based on your limited experience. If what you claim were true in all cases, black teachers would soon be out of the profession altogether. Cussing students and humiliating them is considered “Conduct unbecoming a professional.” You may think that it works with black students, but research shows that humiliation is not an effective teaching technique. It breeds hostility. The teacher can be fired for doing that even if she or he has tenure. I dunno about the cussing students out bit, but during my first year of teaching, when my class was getting pretty badly out of control, I was advised by several professionals at my school to stop the lesson, tell all students to put their heads down on their desks and be quiet, and take the disruptive student over to the phone where, in earshot of the other students, we’d call that student’s mom. Humiliation is like hot pepper. You don’t want it as a main course, but as a spice it can work wonders. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmative-action-in-the-schools/498529/64 "2009-06-13T13:25:03Z")
I’m sure that it gets immediate results, but the long term cumulative effects are what I am thinking of. Of course, we didn’t have telephones in the classroom when I was teaching and I’m sure that that would have been very tempting. Also, almost any kind of disciplinary measure taken in front of others bears some element of humiliation. Maybe calling the parent is the least problematic. But I do know that a humiliated child is not very receptive to learning. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmative-action-in-the-schools/498529/65 "2009-06-13T13:49:49Z")
Here are a very guidelines from the National Educaton Association on classroom discipline. [Link.](http://www.nea.org/assets/docs/mf_classdisckansasnea.pdf) They also say not to argue with a child and not to humiliate. I’ve forgotten, but something makes me think that you may be in a certain state that has has part of its State Board of Ethics that teachers will not deliberately embarass or humiliate a student. If I am correct, you can find this stated on the internet. I hope you will reconsider using this technique as a “spice.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmative-action-in-the-schools/498529.md?page=3)