# Affirmed:Lenin really is the tits **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021 "2010-05-02T12:42:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/201 "2010-05-09T01:02:25Z")
So, the moral of our story is: Lenin had Tits. Hermaphroditic, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/202 "2010-05-09T11:18:00Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, had Lenin actually written something that clearly described a phenomenon, that fact that he was a monster would be irrelevant to the accuracy of his statement, (a point that was too long missed by too many posters in this thread for far too many days). And I must wonder why. After all, sans ellipses the first sentence in the OP reads > [@](#): > > Lenin really was the tits no matter what you might say about his domestic heavy-handedness. And then in post #9, my plaintive plea > [@adhay](#): > > Jeeez. Please no more about Leninism. I’m not a Leninist and I’m not into armed revolution or killing millions of indigenous folks in the process. That’s today’s corporate policy, if you haven’t noticed, not to mention our own thru the years. > > I am saying that his analysis of global corporate capitalism/imperialism is spot on. You find something specific in my cite you’d like to dispute, let me know. Otherwise, check it at the door. Now, of course, that would require anyone posting here to have read the Preface and Chapter V of the pamphlet. Raise your hands. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, as it has now been demonstrated that Lenin’s statement was wrong in both its broad outline and its particulars, we can ignore his monstrous character and simply dismiss his erroneous essay. Cite? 🙂 > [@](#): > > And I will thank you to not breathe new life into exhausted threads in the future–particularly threads with as much heat and little light as this one. Wrong man to talk to. **Bryan** believes in the restorative value of hot air laced with smoke. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/203 "2010-05-09T19:56:17Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Cite? 🙂 It’s your thread; go read it. > [@adhay](#): > > Wrong man to talk to. **Bryan** believes in the restorative value of hot air laced with smoke. I am not in a sufficiently benign mood for you to be hurling insults at other posters. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/204 "2010-05-10T12:20:26Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > … I am not in a sufficiently benign mood for you to be hurling insults at other posters. Hurling.Insults? > [@adhay](#): > > … If my characterizing **Bryan** ’s contributions to this thread (see cite above) as hot air and smoke is an insult, I sincerely apologize to everyone here. In regard to your previous post addressed to the poster in question > [@](#): > > And I will thank you to not breathe new life into exhausted threads in the future–particularly threads with as much heat and little light as this one. to which I responded with the “insult” in question. Yes, I should have just said, > [@](#): > > The thread just seems exhausted. The light in it is shining bright under a hot pile of horseshit. Check your horses at the door. Please. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/205 "2010-05-10T12:42:46Z")
No. You should have sat on your hands and not continued posting personal remarks off topic to this thread. I am glad that you recognize that this thread is pretty much horseshit, but since you appear to want to keep it going long after its expiration date, I am closing it. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/206 "2010-05-11T03:14:06Z")
Re-opened [per this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12439088#post12439088). ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/207 "2010-05-12T12:53:02Z")
First, let me thank **tomndebb** for our brief intermission. Sincerely, a breath of fresh air. > [@Why Was This Thread Closed?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-this-thread-closed/538902/10): > > … I suppose it would have been nice if I had made the point that Lenin’s evil actions were irrelevant to his authorship at some earlier point. 🙂 > [@](#): > > On the other hand, when I first opened the thread and saw the nonsense attributed to Lenin with his utter misreading of the history of monopolies and capitalism, I decided that the topic would be boring and did not stick around to watch it get sidetracked and, since no one reported the sidetrack, I did not revisit the thread until it was much further along. Based, I’m sure, on your reading of the Preface and Chapter V of Imperialism and your understanding of my opinions on the subject. IMHO, this might be an appropriate time for you to cite a few of our differences in our interpretations of the OP’s cites. Again, I’d like to thank **Second Stone** for his support early on (see quote below). Dude, I don’t blame you for finally ducking out. Had this been your thread, I’d have seen it as the fools errand it was and unsubscribed myself. But, the captain must go down with his ship. > [@](#): > > Lenin’s pamphlet “Imperialism” describes old European colonial economic imperialism quite accurately and devastatingly. Modern corporate imperialism too. Don’t be fooled by the people who want to dismiss it because Lenin was a communist. His criticism of capitalism in “Imperialism” is as relevant as Adam Smith’s criticism of the immorality of unchecked capitalism in “Wealth of Nations”. Anyone want to debate that? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/208 "2010-05-13T02:18:49Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > But, the captain must go down with his ship. > > Anyone want to debate that? Nope. Happy sinking. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/209 "2010-05-13T02:21:52Z")
AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!! You did that on purpose, Tom! Gah! (sorry, just had to make my displeasure felt. Carry on with the ‘debate’ :p) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/210 "2010-05-13T02:44:11Z")
Well, I let tomndebb get a word in. How that’s working out for you? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/211 "2010-05-13T13:12:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I let tomndebb get a word in. How that’s working out for you? Time will tell. And as for you, please remember his invitation to you to stay out of it. **tom** , you’ve quite proven to me your dedication to fighting ignorance, as long as it’s not your own. To that end, your first post after dropping your mod hat was, to put it kindly, shameless. As the mod who closed this thread down for crap like that, WTF? It’s worse than that. Your post deserves a formal warning. if it is allowed stand as it is, you will have set a SD precedent which could literally destroy GD and even SDMB. Want every thread filled with comedians bouncing stupid one-liners off bogus quotes? Not quite against the rules regarding editing between quote tags but, IMO, those rules should be rewritten to save us from shit like this. Care to debate it? If not, will you please take to heart your advice to **Bryan** and stop breathing life into a dieing Lenin? But in any event, please disavow your post. The alternative is my reporting it for the good of SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/212 "2010-05-13T15:54:22Z")
In my opinion his post was fine, and the occasional stupid one-liner bounced off a perfectly legitimate quote is part of the lifeblood of the SDMB. Specifically it’s white blood cells - mockery is a gentle attack on the ignorance that can, if left unchecked, spread as an illness to sicken the board. Of course, if your blood has nothing _but_ white blood cells, then you’re screwed. So everything in moderation - we certainly need the cogent and thought out posts too. Even if they get perpetually ignored… All that said, feel free to report the post. You do realize that all that does is bring it to the attention of the mods for review, and that it isn’t an automatic censuring device that calls down smiting lightning bolts from heaven, right? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/213 "2010-05-13T17:50:05Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > **In my opinion his post was fine** , and the occasional stupid one-liner bounced off a perfectly legitimate quote is part of the lifeblood of the SDMB. Specifically it’s white blood cells - mockery is a gentle attack on the ignorance that can, if left unchecked, spread as an illness to sicken the board. > > Of course, if your blood has nothing _but_ white blood cells, then you’re screwed. So everything in moderation - we certainly need the cogent and thought out posts too. Even if they get perpetually ignored… > > All that said, feel free to report the post. You do realize that all that does is bring it to the attention of the mods for review, and that it isn’t an automatic censuring device that calls down smiting lightning bolts from heaven, right? bolding mine. In another context, I’d probably agree. I do no more than look in on rants protesting mod ineptitude or bias. I figure they have a difficult job and there are two sides to every story. Meh. Truth be known, after post #198, I had decided to consign Lenin to ignominy and a peaceful death; I really had just thrown up my hands. But **tom** ’s post #199 started things up again. This ultimately led to Lenin’s closure, a torturous trip thru ATMB to get it reopened which **tom** finally did with this proviso, which I agreed to. > [@](#): > > If it will give you comfort, I will re-open the thread–with the proviso that if it continues to be little more than cheap shots that I have to keep monitoring to make sure that the insults are not getting out of hand, I am going to close it once more. If his post in question is not a cheap shot, WTF is? Should he close it because of his own post? As far as my reporting his post goes, I’d settle for an honest response to my post which he bowdlerized into nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/214 "2010-05-13T18:14:02Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > If his post in question is not a cheap shot, WTF is? Should he close it because of his own post? If the thread is _little more_ than cheap shots, it’s gone, he said. By a plain read of that the mere _presence_ of cheap shots (and pointless side discussions like this one between you and me) is not enough to close it\*; there also must be a near-complete death of other content. If anything a widely-spaced cheap shot or two bumps the thread to give it a chance to _develop_ some such content, rather than dropping off the page. - and we’ll note, he hasn’t closed it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/215 "2010-05-13T18:42:43Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Time will tell. And as for you, please remember his invitation to you to stay out of it. > > **tom** , you’ve quite proven to me your dedication to fighting ignorance, as long as it’s not your own. To that end, your first post after dropping your mod hat was, to put it kindly, shameless. As the mod who closed this thread down for crap like that, WTF? It’s worse than that. > > Your post deserves a formal warning. if it is allowed stand as it is, you will have set a SD precedent which could literally destroy GD and even SDMB. Want every thread filled with comedians bouncing stupid one-liners off bogus quotes? Not quite against the rules regarding editing between quote tags but, IMO, those rules should be rewritten to save us from shit like this. > > Care to debate it? I take exception to the “bogus quotes” bit. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/216 "2010-05-14T13:59:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I take exception to the “bogus quotes” bit. Fat lot of good it’ll do you. I too questioned the value to our debates of allowing “bogus quotes”, of which **tom** ’s is a perfect example. I was told to lighten up, everybody does it and besides, it’s fun. I don’t wonder about the all the heat and absence of light in GD if that’s your idea of “debating” and fun. If I wanted more of that, I’d subscribe to cable. **tom** intervened late 🙂 in the thread and made two assertions. > [@](#): > > Actually, had Lenin actually written something that clearly described a phenomenon, that fact that he was a monster would be irrelevant to the accuracy of his statement, (a point that was too long missed by too many posters in this thread for far too many days). > > On the other hand, as it has now been demonstrated that Lenin’s statement was wrong in both its broad outline and its particulars, we can ignore his monstrous character and simply dismiss his erroneous essay. I agreed with the first and questioned the second. An off-duty mod is not just another poster. He has the power to caution with cites backed by the hand of God. **tom** , in his second assertion took it upon himself to unilaterally and without cites declare the winner of a particular debate and then tell everyone else to shut up or he’ll shut down the thread anyway. Is that one the “veiled threats” **tom** accused me of making? I have asked politely many times for **tom** to offer a rationale for his considered opinion that we may " simply dismiss his [Lenin’s] erroneous essay." His less than polite non-responses are exemplified in his last. So thanks for your send off, **tom**. Yep, the good ship Lenin seems to finally be going down and your last torpedo of “bogus quote” ridicule gets credit for the kill. But I will make a prediction as just another passenger in steerage on this global Titanic piloted full speed and headlong into Peak Oil by the Corporate Kleptocracy. If we don’t first take notice of who’s in the wheel house, we’ll never change our direction and it won’t be long before we follow Lenin to the bottom. Lenin noticed the Hand of Capital on the wheel as I and several other posters in this have noticed. I agree that his solution to take over part of the ship was not well thought out and it only took 70 years of unworkability to prove it. I happen to take the position that the wheelhouse has become politically and economically unassailable, we’re going down and that the best answer is for each of us to stand by the lifeboats of local sustainability. **tom** , forget about my peevish threat to narc on you and I apologize for being childish. If you’re happy with your debating style, I am. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/217 "2010-05-14T14:07:50Z")
I don’t know what _you’re_ objecting to, since your posts largely lack clarity, but I dislike the term “bogus quotes” being applied to _me_ because “quote” has a specific meaning around here and “bogus quote” suggests I was fabricating or altering quotes from other users, which I was not. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/218 "2010-05-14T15:00:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t know what _you’re_ objecting to, since your posts largely lack clarity, but I dislike the term “bogus quotes” being applied to _me_ because “quote” has a specific meaning around here and “bogus quote” suggests I was fabricating or altering quotes from other users, which I was not. Never said you did. Please reread my first paragraph. > [@](#): > > I too questioned the value to our debates of allowing “bogus quotes”, of which tom’s is a perfect example. I was told to lighten up, everybody does it and besides, it’s fun. I don’t wonder about the all the heat and absence of light in GD if that’s **your** idea of “debating” and fun. If I wanted more of that, I’d subscribe to cable. bolding mine That was not directed specifically at you. Sorry for my “lack of clarity”. It was directed at anyone who thinks **tom** was just having some fun and I’ve made too much of things. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/219 "2010-05-14T15:06:32Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Never said you did. Please reread my first paragraph. … > That was not directed specifically at you. I was looking more at your: > [@](#): > > Want every thread filled with comedians bouncing stupid one-liners off bogus quotes? And I guess I really am done in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021/220 "2010-05-14T15:27:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > … And I guess I really am done in this thread. Thanks for showing up. Your input has been invaluable on a number of levels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affirmed-lenin-really-is-the-tits/538021.md?page=12)