# Affluence is morally corrupt (example inside) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957 "2015-03-14T03:44:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/141 "2015-03-15T17:47:32Z")
I think the only way to eliminate excess is to create a system in which there is common ownership of the means of production. Only then will there be a truly classless society. If only we could find some place to institute that system so we can see how well it works. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/142 "2015-03-15T17:55:28Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Well, and the real issue isn’t the middle class workers. Presumably they can afford a reasonable place to live. Not if no one buys their cars. They’ll end up homeless… ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/143 "2015-03-15T18:31:32Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I really can’t understand why so many people equate A and B as the same > > A- Excessive luxury is immoral and does not benefit society > B- No one should be allowed to have any extra money or anything nice Your base problem is you are trying to force your definition of “moral” on other people. > [@Robert163](#): > > So is it your assertion that if mansions and 100K became unfashionable in America and people actually started looking out for their neighbors, that this trend in thought away from rampant consumerism would turn us into the soviet union? If this stuff is required by the government, yes. Not that people aren’t looking out for their neighbors already. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/144 "2015-03-15T18:55:09Z")
Is it Spring Break or something? Skimming this thread (ain’t gonna read it) makes me remember the saying: Hire a teenager… while they still know everything! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/145 "2015-03-15T19:14:46Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > And not to be rude, honestly, but isn’t the idea that people are more important than things hard to disagree with, from a Moral stand point? If you look at history, we disagree with this constantly. We die for things and ideas. Ideas its easy to die for, we’ve sacrificed lives for freedom, voting rights, justice. We risk them in the pursuit of knowledge. But we also lay down our lives for land, for art, for possessions. It wouldn’t be hard to find people willing to risk their lives to save the Mona Lisa. Hell, fairly regularly people risk their lives to smuggle drugs - and that’s just drugs. The idea that life has some sort of huge value is not borne out by how we’ve treated it against possessions throughout human history. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/146 "2015-03-15T20:16:50Z")
I’d suggest that our host should take his philosophy back to Starbucks, where it might impress a young lady. The problem with that is that she’s likely to insist that he do something with it, like volunteer at a homeless shelter. Dates like that teach one the meaning of TANSTAAFL. ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/147 "2015-03-15T22:10:43Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > From a philosophical POV, maybe, but within the bounds of reality 100K is 6,666 movie tickets, or, rent for a 2 bedroom apartment for one family for 7 years. And who’s to say the person with the 100K car isn’t already giving much more than that to the poor? Bill Gates gives away billions. Is he still rich? Yes. But he gives away more than you will ever make. He also creates a huge amount of wealth in the form of jobs. But, yeah. Go to your weird little movie and feel superior. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/148 "2015-03-15T23:14:19Z")
Another question the OP keeps side-stepping: are people living in luxury _causing_ other people to suffer? Wouldn’t it be better to look at the root of the problem itself? You seem to believe that throwing money at a problem is going to make it right. But it doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/149 "2015-03-16T01:35:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is it Spring Break or something? Skimming this thread (ain’t gonna read it) makes me remember the saying: Hire a teenager… while they still know everything! Astonishingly enough, the OP’s join date is 2005, so he must be at least in his 20’s. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/150 "2015-03-16T01:38:10Z")
\*A healthy appetite is good for one and all And I should be at peace with the world baby, but still I want some more… Is it enough? No! Is it enough? No! Is it? No! Is it? No! Is it? No! I want more More cars! More jewels! More women! More men! More fans! More lawyers! So come on and give me more! I want more\* - The Hives ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/151 "2015-03-16T01:50:17Z")
Drawing the precise line is what’s difficult. Few people would criticize someone for owning a $20,000 car. Quite a few people would criticize someone for purchasing a $1 million car. But where do you draw that exact line in between? And, of course, many would argue that it’s the buyer’s business as to what luxuries he wants or gets. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/152 "2015-03-16T01:54:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Another question the OP keeps side-stepping: are people living in luxury _causing_ other people to suffer? Wouldn’t it be better to look at the root of the problem itself? > > You seem to believe that throwing money at a problem is going to make it right. But it doesn’t work that way. If I understand the OP correctly, he isn’t arguing that affluence causes the poor to suffer, but rather that luxury or an affluent lifestyle is insensitive or inappropriate when many are poor. To use an analogy: If someone is lying on the ground writhing in the pain of a heart attack, calling for help, and bystanders keep walking by, ignoring him, then technically their insensitivity to his plight isn’t what’s \*causing \*his suffering - his suffering is caused by plaque blocking his arteries. But it is insensitive of them to walk by and not render aid. ---
**Author:** ![dada2fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ccd318/32.png) [@dada2fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dada2fish)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/153 "2015-03-16T02:20:59Z")
I agree with the OP. I’m disabling my alarm for good. The one that wakes me up every weekday at 4AM for my 10 to 12 hour shift and slowly breaks my spirit. I don’t have to work anymore if some rich person will cover my food, shelter and what ever else I claim I need. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/154 "2015-03-16T02:40:26Z")
To the OP, here is a radically different perspective that I would encourage you to look into. > **[Why You Should Prosper Even Though There's Suffering in the World](https://tinybuddha.com/blog/why-you-should-prosper-even-though-theres-suffering-in-the-world/)** > > People often use other people's suffering as an excuse to not reach their potential. Here's a compelling reason to break that habit. > [@](#): > > No amount of suffering we do on our part will alleviate the suffering in another part of the world. However, every bit the amount of success we live can increase another’s chances of success. We cannot hold a hand out to pull someone up without stable footing ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/155 "2015-03-16T02:52:07Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > To the OP, here is a radically different perspective that I would encourage you to look into. > > [Why You Should Prosper Even Though There's Suffering in the World](http://tinybuddha.com/blog/why-you-should-prosper-even-though-theres-suffering-in-the-world/) A feel good mantra that also appeals to sociopaths. You don’t see the often. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/156 "2015-03-16T05:24:20Z")
Well you know what? I pay a LOT of taxes that help out people who can’t or won’t earn what I earn. Wealth redistribution is alive and well down under. I am lucky but I have had to work very hard and take risks to be well off. Is it wrong for me to have a $100K car? No I like my BMW and as such I have to work bloody hard to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/157 "2015-03-16T05:31:08Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Well you know what? I pay a LOT of taxes that help out people who can’t or won’t earn what I earn. Wealth redistribution is alive and well down under. I am lucky but I have had to work very hard and take risks to be well off. > > Is it wrong for me to have a $100K car? No I like my BMW and as such I have to work bloody hard to pay for it. Plus I’m sure the factory workers, salesman and mechanic are very happy that you bought their product. “Two people will always have different ideas about how to spend money”; I wouldn’t buy a 100K car because that kind of designs don’t fit my needs, but if they fit yours and you can afford it, go ahead. My married brother’s car is bigger than mine - he’s also got more butts to seat. Looking at our cars doesn’t really give much information about how much money we make or how else we spend it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/158 "2015-03-16T05:54:29Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Is it wrong for me to have a $100K car? No I like my BMW and as such I have to work bloody hard to pay for it. Yeah but those are _Australian_ dollars… ## (worth $76454 US at current exchange rates). Though there are Beemers topping $140,000 US. I admit I don’t get why somebody would say something like “I worked _hard_ for my $100,000 car”. It doesn’t seem like a very good value unless you have money to burn. But then you didn’t work hard for it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/159 "2015-03-16T06:02:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If I understand the OP correctly, he isn’t arguing that affluence causes the poor to suffer, but rather that luxury or an affluent lifestyle is insensitive or inappropriate when many are poor. > To use an analogy: If someone is lying on the ground writhing in the pain of a heart attack, calling for help, and bystanders keep walking by, ignoring him, then technically their insensitivity to his plight isn’t what’s \*causing \*his suffering - his suffering is caused by plaque blocking his arteries. But it is insensitive of them to walk by and not render aid. Your analogy sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957/160 "2015-03-16T06:28:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Your analogy sucks. Why? Seems pretty good to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/affluence-is-morally-corrupt-example-inside/714957.md?page=9)