# Afghan man faces death after leaving Islam for Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493 "2006-03-22T22:22:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/1 "2006-03-22T22:22:47Z")
Yes, if we can only foster democracy in the Middle East, peace will reign forever and ever: > [@](#): > > Abdul Rahman told his family he was a Christian. He told the neighbors, bringing shame upon his home. But then he told the police, and he could no longer be ignored. > > Now, in a major test of Afghanistan’s fledgling court system, Rahman, 42, faces the death penalty for abandoning Islam for Christianity. Prosecutors say he should die. So do his family, his jailers, even the judge. Rahman has no lawyer. Jail officials refused to let anyone see Rahman on Monday, despite permission granted by the country’s justice minister. > > “We will cut him into little pieces,” said Hosnia Wafayosofi, who works at the jail, as she made a cutting motion with her hands. “There’s no need to see him.” [President Bush says he is “troubled” by this case](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060322/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_59), yet we see no outrage on the part of Chrisitian fundamentalists. Perhaps they are still too busy fighting the War on Christmas ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/2 "2006-03-22T22:38:26Z")
Why are you looking for a response from “Chrisitian fundamentalists”? There’s been all kind of public and private diplomatic pressure. The US, UK, Australia, the [Germans & Italians](http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/3/222006a.asp) aren’t even being that subtle. No reason to make this into a them vs. them argument - even though the your premise about lack of outrage from Christian fundementalists is wrong (see statements by the FRC, AFA & CWA). ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/3 "2006-03-22T22:44:29Z")
The Islamic Taliban militias who still control entire areas of the country issued a statement in June 2004 in which they referred to a death sentence handed down to an Afghan converted to Christianity, Moulawi Asad Allah." Rome, 22 March "Their spokesman declared that a group of militants had dragged the convert from his home and decapitated him after finding Christian preaching material in his wardrobe. “Unfortunately, in terms of religious freedom Afghanistan has not changed much since the fall of the Taliban” . “The problem is that president Hamad Karzai wanted a modern constitution but with Islamic dressing, as he knew he was in one of the most traditional countries of the Islamic world.” "Karzai tried to reconcile Islamic Sharia law with universal human values, succeeding in some areas, such as the introduction of a womens’ quota in parliament, but failing in others. “In Afghanistan only freedom of worship if guaranteed - not freedom of religion” [http://www.adnki.com/index\_2Level\_English.php?cat=Religion&loid=8.0.278814590&par=1&offset=0](http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Religion&loid=8.0.278814590&par=1&offset=0) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/4 "2006-03-22T22:45:01Z")
I believe Islam has always tended to treat apostates with extreme, if not fatal prejudice. Did anyone think that this would change just because people in a conservative islamic culture got to vote? Some extreme Christian right movements advocate similar for non-believers and Christian apostates and heretics: Check out Dominionism some time (aka Christian Reconstructionism). ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/5 "2006-03-22T22:46:49Z")
Leave it to the SDMB’s looney left to knee-jerk fault to Bush and the Christian right. I actually giggled out loud at the absurdity. Thanks, Fear. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/6 "2006-03-22T22:51:31Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Leave it to the SDMB’s looney left to knee-jerk fault to Bush and the Christian right. I actually giggled out loud at the absurdity. Thanks, Fear. How do you feel about that fact that Bush has installed and continues to support a government which kills people who convert to Christianity? Please try to pull your head out its normal location deep in your ass and try to comprehend the issue for once. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/7 "2006-03-22T22:53:06Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Some extreme Christian right movements advocate similar for non-believers and Christian apostates and heretics: Check out Dominionism some time (aka Christian Reconstructionism). In medieval Europe, there actually were laws mandating the death penalty for apostates from Christianity. It’s one more thing that makes me glad I live when and where I do :eek: Oh, and to the people who think this guy should be executed for converting from Islam, and to anyone who thinks I should be punished by the law somehow for leaving Christianity: FUCK YOU ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/8 "2006-03-22T22:57:32Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I believe Islam has always tended to treat apostates with extreme, if not fatal prejudice. Actually, Islam was at one time much more tolerant than Christianity. Seems like these extreme measures are new. > [@DtC](#): > > How do you feel about that fact that Bush has installed and continues to support a government which kills people who convert to Christianity? That gov’t wasn’t “installed” by Bush. It was elected by the people of Afghanistan. And they haven’t executed anyone for converting to Christianity yet. I’d be wiling to wager that they won’t, either. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/9 "2006-03-22T23:00:13Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Some extreme Christian right movements advocate similar for non-believers and Christian apostates and heretics: Check out Dominionism some time (aka Christian Reconstructionism). Oh, and can we have a cite that Dominionists extole execution for non-Christians? Not that I want to defend those whack-os, but I don’t believe they’re that whacky. And what can be “similar” to execution? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/10 "2006-03-22T23:05:41Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Oh, and can we have a cite that Dominionists extole execution for non-Christians? Not that I want to defend those whack-os, but I don’t believe they’re that whacky. And what can be “similar” to execution? They don’t just want to kill _non_-Christians but even liberal Christians. [Cite.](http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm) > [@](#): > > All religious organizations, congregations etc. other than strictly Fundamentalist Christianity would be suppressed. Nonconforming Evangelical, main line and liberal Christian religious institutions would no longer be allowed to hold services, organize, proselytize, etc. Society would revert to the laws and punishments of the Hebrew Scriptures. Any person who advocated or practiced other religious beliefs outside of their home would be tried for idolatry and executed. Blasphemy, adultery and homosexual behavior would be criminalized; those found guilty would also be executed. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/11 "2006-03-22T23:11:47Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > How do you feel about that fact that Bush has installed and continues to support a government which kills people who convert to Christianity? Please try to pull your head out its normal location deep in your ass and try to comprehend the issue for once. So now Bush needs to abandon Karzai because stupidity happens in that country? Itching to pit him over his abandonment of Afghanistan again? Don’t make it look like Bush supports such actions or installed the idiocy that makes it happen. What you apparently failed to comprehend is that Afghanistan is nothing like the Podunk town you grew up in. It has been a war-torn, backward, fundamentalist country for generations. How about Bush keep pressure on the country to change its backward ideals than cut and run when your tulips get wilted over something, dipshit? > [@](#): > > Said Bush, according to the AP: > > "We expect them to honor the universal principle of freedom. I’m troubled when I hear, deeply troubled when I hear, the fact that a person who converted away from Islam may be held to account. That’s not the universal application of the values that I talked about. I look forward to working with the government of that country to make sure that people are protected in their capacity to worship.’’ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/12 "2006-03-22T23:16:23Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > They don’t just want to kill _non_-Christians but even liberal Christians. > [Cite.](http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm) Hey, I can write a “cite” like that and put it up on the internet. Got an original source from the Dominionists saying this or a cite from a mainstream news organization? Again, I know these guys are whacky, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they advocated extreme punishment for things like homosexual acts. But exectution of non-Dominionists (or those who don’t practice their from of Christianity)… I need to see an objective cite before I believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/13 "2006-03-22T23:23:31Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Yes, if we can only foster democracy in the Middle East, peace will reign forever and ever:[President Bush says he is “troubled” by this case](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060322/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_59), yet we see no outrage on the part of Chrisitian fundamentalists. Perhaps they are still too busy fighting the War on Christmas Umm, actually there is outrage from the fundie side. See [AFA.net](http://AFA.net) They have an article, a petition etc. There was a big write up on it in the LA Times today with reference to the Family Research Council raising a fuss about it etc. Maybe you just don’t read the right fundie sites. 😉 I read them mostly for entertainment value, plus it gives me a chance to find out what’s on the gay agenda. Which I STILL don’t have a copy of. ::grumble:: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/14 "2006-03-22T23:32:20Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Hey, I can write a “cite” like that and put it up on the internet. Got an original source from the Dominionists saying this or a cite from a mainstream news organization? > > Again, I know these guys are whacky, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they advocated extreme punishment for things like homosexual acts. But exectution of non-Dominionists (or those who don’t practice their from of Christianity)… I need to see an objective cite before I believe that. What’s wrong with the Religious Tolerance site? That’s generally been accepted around here. Each entry is written by people who belong to that particular denomination. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/15 "2006-03-22T23:34:22Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I believe Islam has always tended to treat apostates with extreme, if not fatal prejudice. > > Did anyone think that this would change just because people in a conservative islamic culture got to vote? Our President sure threw around the terms “freedom” and “liberty” enough to create the impression that there would be an American style democracy in Afghanistan. Read some of this [glurge](http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/afghanistan/20040708.html): > [@](#): > > “In January, Afghans approved a new constitution that protects the right of all Afghan citizens, including women. …they agreed upon a fundamental law that respects tradition and establishes a foundation of modern political rights, including free speech, due process, and a vote for every citizen.” > \*President Bush’s remarks on Development in Afghanistan > Washington Convention Center > May 18, 2004 \* > “The world and the United States stand with [the people of Afghanistan] as partners in their quest for peace and prosperity and stability and democracy.” > \*President Bush’s remarks in a press conference with President Karzai of Afghanistan > The Rose Garden, Washington, D.C. > June 15, 2004 \* > > “People have got a sparkle in their eye and women now all of a sudden no longer fear the future but believe that we’re there to stay the course and we will help a free society emerge.” > \*President Bush’s remarks in a news conference > June 1, 2004 \* I suppose it is our oversight to miss the fine print: \*religious fredom not included ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/16 "2006-03-22T23:45:36Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Actually, Islam was at one time much more tolerant than Christianity. Seems like these extreme measures are new… It was, but even at that point, conversion from Islam was generally punishable by death. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/17 "2006-03-22T23:46:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What’s wrong with the Religious Tolerance site? That’s generally been accepted around here. Each entry is written by people who belong to that particular denomination. They are? Why does the guy in this artilce use “they” instead of “we” when describing that sect? ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/18 "2006-03-22T23:59:07Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s wrong with the Religious Tolerance site? That’s generally been accepted around here. Each entry is written by people who belong to that particular denomination. You got a cite for that? As far as I know, the entries on that site are written by the maintainers of the site. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/19 "2006-03-23T00:12:33Z")
I gotta say, I have no idea quite what the point of the OP is, aside from the obvious (and universally agreed-upon by SDMB-ers of all stripes) observation that Sharia law is a Bad Thing? I don’t see what us-centric political tweaking can come of this in either direction… I’d like to be snide and say that if the US weren’t in Iraq things would be better in Afghanistan, and that’s probably true in many ways, but I see no reason to think that this type of situation would be any different. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/20 "2006-03-23T00:15:19Z")
Here’s a [Salon](http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/01/06/ahmanson/index.html?pn=5) piece which has some info on the founder of the movement, R.J Rushdoony. > [@](#): > > Rushdoony spelled out his philosophy in painstaking detail in his 1973 magnum opus, “Institutes of Biblical Law,” which he self-consciously named after John Calvin’s “Institutes of Christian Religion.” In the 800-page tome, Rushdoony presents his vision for a new America in which the church subsumes the federal government and society is administered according to biblical law, or at least his interpretation of it. According to biblical law, he writes, segregation is a “basic principle,” and slavery is permitted “because some people are by nature slaves and will always be so.” Those who don’t comply with Rushdoony’s rules – disobedient children, “pagans,” adulterers, women who get abortions, repeat criminal offenders and, of course, homosexuals – would be executed. Mrs. Ahmanson, who described Rushdoony as “quirky in some ways,” qualified his extremism: “To impose the death penalty you need two witnesses. So the number of executions goes down pretty quickly.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493.md?page=2)