# Afghan man faces death after leaving Islam for Christianity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493 "2006-03-22T22:22:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/61 "2006-03-24T06:46:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > David Simmons and Updike: > > Out of idle curiosity, how can, say, a Muslim in England force the Muslims in Afghanistan to stop an Afghani judge from issuing such a ruling? Forget England. What about moderate Muslims in Afghanistan? Are there none? Is any Afghan imam calling for tolerance and acceptance? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/62 "2006-03-24T08:16:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > David Simmons and Updike: > > Out of idle curiosity, how can, say, a Muslim in England force the Muslims in Afghanistan to stop an Afghani judge from issuing such a ruling? I’d say **David Simmons & Updike** were being sarcastic. **John Mace** , There _are_ no moderate muslims. Least of all a moderate imam. If you’re moderate, you’re dead. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/63 "2006-03-24T09:08:32Z")
> [@gum](#): > > … > > **John Mace** , There _are_ no moderate muslims. Least of all a moderate imam. > > If you’re moderate, you’re dead. I’m not entirely convinced by the evidence for these conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/64 "2006-03-24T09:58:05Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > I’m not entirely convinced by the evidence for these conclusions. I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/65 "2006-03-24T13:24:05Z")
> [@gum](#): > > I don’t care. On the contrary. Your dedication to bigotry is conspicuous. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/66 "2006-03-24T13:35:37Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Your dedication to bigotry is conspicuous. Congratulations! The Board of Directors of the Pot.Kettle.Black. Hall of Fame has elected you to the Hall by unanimous vote. Your plaque and beanie with propeller will be arriving by third class mail. For an extra $250\* we will create a lighted shrine in the vestibule in your honor. \*Pay Pal accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/67 "2006-03-24T13:44:22Z")
Muslims, inside or outside England, have no special obligation to protest anything. But that they in the hundreds of thousands so loudly, and in some instances so violently, protest a few cartoons, but apparently do not feel the need to likewise in mass and loudly protest the supposedly hijacking of their religion by terrorists and the atrocities done in their beloved religion’s name, as here murder of a man who’s only crime is conversation, that in itself speaks of a certain opinion, and one is easily led to the conclusion that either the alleged moderate Muslim majority does not disagree with Bin Laden’s airplanes, al-Zarqawi’s beheadings or Afghan executions or else the moderate Muslim majority does not exist and no religion has been hijacked, that this on the contrary is the true nature of the beast. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/68 "2006-03-24T14:04:19Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Muslims, inside or outside England, have no special obligation to protest anything. But that they in the hundreds of thousands so loudly, and in some instances so violently, protest a few cartoons, but apparently do not feel the need to likewise in mass and loudly protest the supposedly hijacking of their religion by terrorists and the atrocities done in their beloved religion’s name, as here murder of a man who’s only crime is conversation, that in itself speaks of a certain opinion, Oh tosh. You can’t surmise support from silence or inaction. More to the point, it is only your ‘supposition’ that Islam has been hi-jacked by terrorists. Have you considered that it does not look that way to most Muslims, who carry on their life as normal and do not see what the fuss is about. > [@Rune](#): > > and one is easily led to the conclusion that either the alleged moderate Muslim majority does not disagree with Bin Laden’s airplanes, al-Zarqawi’s beheadings or Afghan executions or else the moderate Muslim majority does not exist and no religion has been hijacked, that this on the contrary is the true nature of the beast. Well I see a strong basis to agree that there is some ‘easily lead’ going on. Your better point though, is that no religion has been hijacked. The reason Muslims see that as true is that the conduct you mention is not representative of Islamic theology or carried by the support of mainstream Islamic leadership. There are renegade muslims. Whoo hoo. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/69 "2006-03-24T14:05:40Z")
> [@gum](#): > > I’d say **David Simmons & Updike** were being sarcastic. > > **John Mace** , There _are_ no moderate muslims. Least of all a moderate imam. > > If you’re moderate, you’re dead. No. There are moderate and democratic Muslims. It’s just that the Muslim radicals hate them even more than they hate everything else (and that’s saying a lot). Just now, there’s a very courageous man in Denmark, Naser Khader, who has been one the major people behind a new organisation called Democratic Muslims, and just yesterday was revealed on hidden camera threathned with murder by a supposedly moderate Imam living in Denmark (one from the infamous Travelling Lying Imam Circus (TLIC)). This on top of all the other numerous death threats he has received, means he is the most threatened man in Denmark, and he and his family have to live under constant police protection. But that the radical Muslims try to tar every Muslim not like themselves as non-Muslims (another Imam from the TLIC even refused to shake his hand) don’t mean we should buy into their bullshit. What puzzle me, is that the fundamentalists and radicals don’t seem to see that when they make it a question between either following the same vicious strain of Islam as themselves or being non-Muslim, they’re forcing a lot of Muslims away from Islam, and possible doing more harm to Islam than any other enemy could ever have. Apparently the fastest growing religion in Iran is Zoroastrism. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/70 "2006-03-24T14:18:31Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > … > > What puzzle me, is that the fundamentalists and radicals don’t seem to see that when they make it a question between either following the same vicious strain of Islam as themselves or being non-Muslim, they’re forcing a lot of Muslims away from Islam, and possible doing more harm to Islam than any other enemy could ever have. … That may be the case in Denmark. But with great respect, that is not really a sufficient sample to form a general conclusion about the living religion of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/71 "2006-03-24T14:26:01Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Oh tosh. You can’t surmise support from silence or inaction. That’s debateable. But was not the point I was trying to make. I was pointing out the big difference between the uproar of a few cartoons and the complete lack of uproar caused by all the awful things done in the name of Islam, which any moderate Muslim who loves his faith surely must look upon with complete revolution. When thousands and thousands protests one thing (e.g. insulting Muhammed in cartoons) but keeps silent on another like thing (e.g. terrorists insulting Muhammed by abusing his name) I think there is a difference that needs an explanation. Were I a devout Christian and were people around the globe slitting throats and flying airplanes into buildings while screaming Jesus is Great! I would be immensely more concerned about that, than a few cartoons somewhere on the edge of the globe. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/72 "2006-03-24T14:29:51Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Forget England. What about moderate Muslims in Afghanistan? Are there none? Is any Afghan imam calling for tolerance and acceptance? From the Associated Press: > [@](#): > > Muslim clerics in Afghanistan said yesterday that Rahman should be executed, the Associated Press reported from Kabul. ``Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die,’’ AP cited cleric Abdul Raoulf as saying. Raoulf was jailed three times by the Taliban, according to the news agency. You know, you’d think that after 6000 odd years God would be all grown up and able to take care of himself by this point. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/73 "2006-03-24T14:32:47Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Were I a devout Christian and were people around the globe slitting throats and flying airplanes into buildings while screaming Jesus is Great! I would be immensely more concerned about that, than a few cartoons somewhere on the edge of the globe. My experience of the Islamic community is that this fairly describes its concerns too. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/74 "2006-03-24T14:36:22Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > That may be the case in Denmark. But with great respect, that is not really a sufficient sample to form a general conclusion about the living religion of Islam. Well, I was speaking generally and not about Denmark. But the example I gave was Zoroastrism in Iran and I don’t know if it’s true. But it has been repeated numerous times on this board that Iranians have turned their back on Islam in great numbers after the Islamic revolution. I recently saw a report which said that more than two million Russian Muslims had converted to Christianity, and there was a clear connection between these conversations and with a radicalisation of Islam and Islamic terrorism. > [@](#): > > Terrorism is another reason for the increase in conversions, he added. “After each terrorist attack, thousands and even hundreds of thousands become Christians,” resulting in an almost 50 percent drop in the Muslim population in certain regions. > **[Missing Page Redirect](http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=40588)** > > A chief provider and curator of Catholic information on the web since 1996. Our editorial voice, always faithful to the teachings of the Church, assists and inspires Catholic clergy and laity. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/75 "2006-03-24T16:20:11Z")
> [@gum](#): > > I’d say **David Simmons & Updike** were being sarcastic. > > **John Mace** , There _are_ no moderate muslims. Least of all a moderate imam. > > If you’re moderate, you’re dead. Well, that depends on which country we’re talking about. The vast majority of Muslims in the US are tolerant and have a similar belief in freedom of religion as the rest of us. My question is specifically about Afghanistan. Is that country so intolerant that no moderate Muslim dares speak out? The local San Jose TV NEws intervied a transplanted Afghani national living here\* who converted to Christianity as well. They had to hide his face, though, since he didn’t want to be identified. Does the long arm of Afghani intolerance reach that far? \*we proabably have the largest group of Afghanis in the US living here. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/76 "2006-03-24T17:08:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > My question is specifically about Afghanistan. Is that country so intolerant that no moderate Muslim dares speak out? It appears that the populace there is that intolerant. [http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-03-24T145944Z\_01\_SP13827\_RTRUKOC\_0\_UK-RELIGION-AFGHAN.xml](http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-03-24T145944Z_01_SP13827_RTRUKOC_0_UK-RELIGION-AFGHAN.xml) ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/77 "2006-03-24T19:40:19Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Well, that depends on which country we’re talking about. The vast majority of Muslims in the US are tolerant and have a similar belief in freedom of religion as the rest of us. My question is specifically about Afghanistan. Is that country so intolerant that no moderate Muslim dares speak out? The local San Jose TV NEws intervied a transplanted Afghani national living here\* who converted to Christianity as well. They had to hide his face, though, since he didn’t want to be identified. Does the long arm of Afghani intolerance reach that far? > > \*we proabably have the largest group of Afghanis in the US living here. I do hope your right and it’s not just a case of them not having enough politcal clout to impose their own views. I’m curious, why do so many Muslims get upset at cartoons and a lone convert when there are thousands of Muslims being slaughtered in Sudan? What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/78 "2006-03-24T20:28:54Z")
[CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/24/afghan.convert/index.html) is reporting that he may be released in a few days. Robin ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/79 "2006-03-24T20:55:33Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/24/afghan.convert/index.html) is reporting that he may be released in a few days. > > Robin He might be safer in jail, given what his fellow coutnrymen seem to be saying. And of course, this just puts of the issue until next time. I understand that every country has to find it’s own way, and we can’t expect the Afghans to sudenly embrace western-style liberalism, but I sure would feel better if there was a sense that some fraction of that society wants to stand up for individual liberty. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493/80 "2006-03-24T21:00:18Z")
**sevastopol** , I’m not a bigot and everyone knows that. What I meant with “I don’t care” is that I don’t give damn what _you_ think. You’re a sad example of penis-envy for the ‘West’. Now, be a good boy and play with tiny pencil untill your mama tells you to go to bed. [hands above your blankie!] **Rune** , congrats on Naser Khader, but I’m afraid for his life. I can’t resist sharing this with you. [I was searching for apostate or ‘murtadd’] From: [http://www.mail-archive.com/islamcity@yahoogroups.com/msg06285.html](http://www.mail-archive.com/islamcity@yahoogroups.com/msg06285.html) \*NB: Read this link if you’d like to hear more evidence of the evil, fascist Dutch. \* > [@](#): > > When Murtadd Samira Haddad applied for a post teaching Arabic language at ICA, she was given an interview to which she came undressed. She > was asked if she was a Muslimah and she answered “Yes”. Then she was > asked why she was undressed. She stated that her father was from > Tunisia where the regime has prohibited publicly wearing hijab - as > though that had any bearing on the issue. When she was informed that > Muslimahs must wear hijab - but non-Muslims are not so required - > Samira Haddad apostasized from Islam on the spot and demanded a > teaching post as a non-Muslim teacher. Mmmm. I’d frown if someone came undressed to an interview. Unless he’d look anything like John Cusack, ofcourse. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghan-man-faces-death-after-leaving-islam-for-christianity/349493.md?page=5)