# Afghanistan is still a basket case. Can anything be done? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970 "2005-02-26T03:52:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Well](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df788c/32.png) [@Well](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Well)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/21 "2005-02-27T06:47:31Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I have a serious question that is not (believe it or not in this forum) politically motivated: How can Afghanistan ever _not_ be a “basket case”? It seems that without a benefactor like the US, you may be right. The greatest resource any nation has is its people. If the US can focus on buidling a half decent education system for them then that would be the key to their success. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/22 "2005-02-27T07:02:04Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Afghanistan is still a basket case…key word there is ‘still’. It always has been (at least thats how it seems historically from what little I know about the nation…perhaps there was a time before Alexander when it prospered as a trade route for the east/west caravans) The general area of Afghanistan has been the center of several sizeable states and has a result been somewhat properous during those periods. For example the **Kushans** who dominated west central Asia and northern India had their capital in Peshawar, now in Pakistan on the other side of the Khyber Pass, but essentially ‘Afghan’ in culture and history. The Turkic **Ghaznavid** and **Ghurid** dynasties that made the first systematic conquests of northern India by Muslim powers, based themselves out of Ghazna ( modern Ghazni ), on the road between Qandahar and Kabul. A branch of the **Timurids** under Timur’s son Shah Rukh and grandson Ulugh Beg made Herat in western Afghanistan their capital and turned it into a cultural oasis. Another branch, that of the **Mughals** under Babur had Kabul as his capital as he launched his bids for empire in central Asia ( failed ) and India ( succeeded ) - it remained tied to the Mughal empire for another couple of centuries, vital as the access point to quality Iranian and Turanian calvary mounts ( Indian horses were universally considered distinctly inferior, probably due to lack of good pasturage and fodder ). The founder of modern Afghanistan ( which at that point included modern Pakistan and a slice of modern India ), Ahmed Shah Abdali, made his capital at Qandahar and was the dominant power in northern India in his heyday after defeating the Marathas at Panipat in 1761. That said, Afghanistan has always been important mostly for its strategic position and at times its reservoir of military manpower, not its internal wealth. While it may have been central to immensely wealthy states like that of the Kushans, the wealth was probably mostly generated from without, not from within. > [@Cisco](#): > > I have a serious question that is not (believe it or not in this forum) politically motivated: How can Afghanistan ever _not_ be a “basket case”? > > I just don’t see how that landlocked, dry, mountainous chunk of land could ever be a prosperous nation. Well…prosperous? Maybe not. You’re right that they are fucked geographically in a couple of respects. But “not devastated” would be a huge step up. If countries like Botswana ( which granted has some diamonds and spectacular wildlife, but at least Afghanistan has some gem mines of its own, as well as iron, coal, natural gas, copper etc., all of which were once being exploited, but currently aren’t and it can serve as a conduit between central Asia and the subcontinent in terms of oil pipelines and motor transit - plus it has some impressive archaeology/architecture, minus what the Taliban blasted ) can make themselves over into a somewhat poor, but functional state, Afghanistan should be able to as well. > [@](#): > > Serious question: What’s the best we could hope for in Afghanistan? Somewhat poor, but functional. Little or no starvation, rule of law, etc. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/23 "2005-02-27T17:15:08Z")
> [@BG](#): > > But it did, x. The Taliban was an oppressive regime, but at least it provided an effective national government. The government they have now is powerless except in the immediate neighborhood of Kabul; the rest of the country is divided into warlords’ fiefs. That is a change, and in many ways not an improvement. Was it ‘somewhat functional’? They also didn’t control the entire country, also were desperately poor. But, even granted that they were ‘an effective national government’ (which I think is a HUGE stretch btw, but for the sake of arguement I’ll go there), how long did it TAKE the Taliban to become even as effective as they were? 3 years? More? I haven’t looked it up but it seens Afghanistan has been torn for at least a decade BEFORE the US invaded. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > That said, Afghanistan has always been important mostly for its strategic position and at times its reservoir of military manpower, not its internal wealth. While it may have been central to immensely wealthy states like that of the Kushans, the wealth was probably mostly generated from without, not from within. Ok, I’ll buy that…not least because you know more about this stuff than I do. As you seem to be implying though, no one is going to make Afghanistan the center of a new empire to be able to draw on its fierce manpower or because of its strategic position for trade and as a crossroads. So, they are going to have to rely on what they have…which isn’t much. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > Somewhat poor, but functional. Little or no starvation, rule of law, etc. Certainly agree with this. How long and what will it take to achieve this though…and what SHOULD the US (and others…lets not forget that as far as Afghanistan goes at least the US isn’t there alone) be doing that they aren’t to make it happen? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/24 "2005-03-01T14:32:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Why can’t the media report on it? Oh they do, its just that people like you don’t take notice of it. So a blogger decided to go against the grain and list all the good reports as a counter weight. [Good news from Afghanistan](http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2004/08/good-news-from-afghanistan-part-3.html) There are 8 parts, read them all. > [@](#): > > I just don’t see how that landlocked, dry, mountainous chunk of land could ever be a prosperous nation. People said similar things about Japan, apart from the landlocked part, and its now the second largest economy on the planet, and the richest country in the world, all we know about Afghanistan is thats its going to take time for things to change. The second thing is that the country is two thirds made up of hills and mountains, which over the centuries established tribes and clans which were never able to be completely subdued to central government control. Afghanistan has always had a weak central government, and the only way to counter this is to build up viable infrastructure around these areas. > [@](#): > > But it did, x. The Taliban was an oppressive regime, but at least it provided an effective national government. The government they have now is powerless except in the immediate neighborhood of Kabul; the rest of the country is divided into warlords’ fiefs. That is a change, and in many ways not an improvement. As long as the Taliban were helped maintain rule in their areas, Warlords simply kept control and swtiched to their side, so nothing changed, it was just an illusion of order. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/25 "2005-03-01T14:45:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh they do, its just that people like you don’t take notice of it. What major media outlets are reporting on all the good things that are happening in Afghanistan? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/26 "2005-03-01T14:48:23Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > What major media outlets are reporting on all the good things that are happening in Afghanistan? When a country becomes the leading supplier of heroin in the world any good news is just pissing in the wind. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/27 "2005-03-01T15:19:59Z")
**ToF:** _What major media outlets are reporting on all the good things that are happening in Afghanistan?_ I don’t think any of them are specifically focusing on happy thoughts like the “Good News from Afghanistan” blog that **Ryan** mentioned, but I certainly see major media reports on Afghanistan that include positive items. The fact that last fall’s elections went well in the safe areas around Kabul, for example, was widely reported. **xt:** _How long and what will it take to achieve this though…and what SHOULD the US (and others…lets not forget that as far as Afghanistan goes at least the US isn’t there alone) be doing that they aren’t to make it happen?_ Well, I think everybody’s pretty much agreed on the following: 1. Afghanistan was not thriving under the Taliban even before Operation Enduring Freedom went in, and there’s no way it would be a prosperous country at this stage of the game even if OEF hadn’t happened. 2. Coalition/UN troops in Afghanistan are indeed accomplishing some good things in restoring/providing infrastructure, mostly in non-warlord-controlled areas, and many of the locals are happy about that. 3. What is currently being done to rebuild Afghanistan may not be enough to lift them out of stasis and opium dependence in large parts of the country. The UN’s recent Human Development Report on Afghanistan warned that the situation is unstable and made some recommendations. What should we be doing that we aren’t? Maybe, committing more resources, or at least working harder to make effective use of the resources we’ve already committed. As a (mostly bad-news) [overview](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?pid=2218) recently put it, > [@](#): > > Six months after the international community pledged $4.5 billion over five years in January 2002, then-Afghan Reconstruction Minister Amin Fahang warned that the money was not reaching Afghans as promised. Congress scrambled to add $300 million for schools, roads, hospitals and infrastructure after Bush provided no money in the 2003 budget. A Government Accountability Office review found the US lacked “a coherent, consistent, and closely coordinated” aid strategy between 2002 and 2003. > > As the US shifted resources and attention to Iraq, the resurgence of the Taliban, continued warlordism, spikes in opium production and delays in funding hampered long-term reconstruction efforts. […] > > By the Berlin conference in April 2004, the world community had netted an additional $6 billion for reconstruction. But the $13.4 billion pledged was less than half of the $27.5 billion the Asian Development Bank estimated Afghanistan needed. “The low level of funding for reconstruction remains astonishing, given the importance with which major nations claim to regard it,” wrote the Center on International Cooperation at New York University. > > To date, $9 billion of the $13.4 billion has been committed, of which only $3.9 billion has actually been disbursed. A mere $900 million worth of reconstruction projects are actually finished. The completed projects, such as the highly-touted Kabul-Kandahar road, did little to foster long-term independence. (USAID contracted the road to a Texas firm who then subcontracted to Turkish and Indian companies.) “The reconstruction money is too little and spent badly,” says Barnett Rubin, an advisor to former UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi and internationally-known expert on Afghanistan. […] > > James Dobbins, Bush’s first special envoy to Kabul, calls Afghanistan “the least-resourced long-scale American reconstruction program ever.” Cambodia, Sierra Leone and the Congo received more per capita spending in their first two years of reconstruction than Afghanistan, to say nothing of expensive efforts in Kosovo, Bosnia and East Timor. Revenue from poppy cultivation is now double the amount of disbursed international aid. The cost of maintaining 18,000 US troops along the Afghan-Pakistan border is nearly four times that, at $12 billion yearly. “The focus on security is also deviating necessary funds from reconstruction,” says Sharbanou Tadjbakhsh, editor of the new UN report. “Poverty is more threatening to the every day life of Afghans than terrorists.” Probably the single best thing we (the US and other coalition members) could have done for Afghanistan a couple years ago is to refrain from committing to a war in Iraq, which has simply stretched budgets, military resources, and compassionate attention spans beyond long-term sustainable levels. Probably the best thing that we can do for Afghanistan now is to find a way to make Iraq speedily, safely, and stably independent. As **xt** points out, despite the attrition from Hussein and sanctions and the devastation of war, Iraq still has a lot more potential, infrastructure-wise, for strong rebuilding than Afghanistan currently does. (Whether Iraq has the necessary **political** potential is still an open question.) But basically, I’d say the thing we need to commit to most is simply not forgetting about Afghanistan again. We made some pretty strong commitments to a free Afghanistan in a [1986 Reagan speech](http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1986/61686b.htm): > [@](#): > > I met this morning with leaders of the Afghan resistance alliance: Professor Burhanuddin Rabbani, who is the spokesman of the alliance, and his colleagues. They speak for the many citizens of Afghanistan who are battling Soviet forces in the name of national liberation. > > My message to the resistance delegation was simple: In your struggle to regain your nation’s independence, the American people stand with you. This policy has broad and deep bipartisan support; it is an unshakable commitment. Your goal is our goal – the freedom of Afghanistan. We will not let you down. The “Afghan resistance alliance” kicked the Soviet forces out, which IMO gave us a false sense of achievement and a corresponding loss of interest: the Evil Empire was defeated, mission accomplished, right? And then, given the strife and poverty in the war-ravaged country, they morphed into fundamentalist, theocratic overlords before we really started paying attention again. And now we’re back at square one. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/28 "2005-03-01T15:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > What major media outlets are reporting on all the good things that are happening in Afghanistan? No good news is great news. > [@](#): > > The “Afghan resistance alliance” kicked the Soviet forces out, which IMO gave us a false sense of achievement and a corresponding loss of interest: the Evil Empire was defeated, mission accomplished, right? And then, given the strife and poverty in the war-ravaged country, they morphed into fundamentalist, theocratic overlords before we really started paying attention again. And now we’re back at square one. Wasn’t the US fault though, if the Muhajadeen hadn’t fought each other so many times and tried to forment a national government, we wouldn’t of seen their collapse into the Northern Alliance, and the rise of the Taliban at all. And considering the Afghan government survived the collapse of the Soviet Union and only fell because Boris Yeltsin cut supplies, is another factor which shows the US wasn’t the main reason why Afghanistan is so badly destroyed. > [@](#): > > Professor Burhanuddin Rabbani He was murdered after the Soviets left. Which lead to the collapse of any form of government left in Afghanistan, why would Americans deal with such people who couldn’t care less of restoring a national central government? They only do now because they were unified against a fundamentalist enemy, which was vanquished. > [@](#): > > Your goal is our goal – the freedom of Afghanistan. We will not let you down. The Afghans were fighting against Soviet forces, which were _foreign_, they were fighting against _foreigners_, and I don’t think the US marching in with a contingent would of helped the situation. I don’t think anyone could sort the situation out in afghanistan after the ending of occupation, but they were free and we did help them towards that goal, the specifics afterwards, such as reconstruction and rebuilding, is different. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/29 "2005-03-02T14:29:05Z")
Y’know, it strikes me that the best thing we could do with Afghan opium would be to buy it up and burn it all or resello it to morphine plants or whatever. Morphine comes from opium, right? I could be getting that wrong. Anyway, cost effective, sends money where its needed. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/30 "2005-03-02T14:52:21Z")
Afghani-Disney Land is bound to be cheap, Disney is a pro at taking nothing and making something, and you know the Afghan kids will take to Mickey like nobody’s business. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/31 "2005-03-02T15:18:17Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Y’know, it strikes me that the best thing we could do with Afghan opium would be to buy it up and burn it all or resello it to morphine plants or whatever. > > Morphine comes from opium, right? I could be getting that wrong. Anyway, cost effective, sends money where its needed. > [@plnnr](#): > > Afghani-Disney > > Land is bound to be cheap, Disney is a pro at taking nothing and making something, and you know the Afghan kids will take to Mickey like nobody’s business. I’m thinking there might be a way to combine these ideas in a winning synergy . . . ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/32 "2005-03-02T15:41:52Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > Afghani-Disney > > Land is bound to be cheap, Disney is a pro at taking nothing and making something, and you know the Afghan kids will take to Mickey like nobody’s business. And the best thing about it would be that you could populate the whole “Small World” ride with different national-tribal identities within Afghanistan alone! ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/33 "2005-03-04T04:38:16Z")
From [this](http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2004/08/good-news-from-afghanistan-part-3.html), **Ryan\_Liam** ’s cite: “US-led coalition forces are preparing a coordinated effort to attack the narcotics trade in Afghanistan, recognizing that drug income could be used to fund insurgents and terrorists in the country.” Of course money could aid terrorists. So could roads, communications, medicine, energy, etc. You could imagine a national Afghan leader who would wish for the opium production to continue long enough to fund some of their own economic infrastructure. No way he could do it openly, though. It’s as big as Texas and a whole lot steeper. It would seem the cash crop, opium, would be a huge incentive for a local leader or warlord to stay out of the control of Kabul, and ambush revenooers. It seems this could be a long-term problem, market forces being what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/34 "2005-03-04T05:15:47Z")
> [@](#): > > US-led coalition forces are preparing a coordinated effort to attack the narcotics trade in Afghanistan Here’s a bit more on the anti-opium efforts: > [@](#): > > Washington will give Afghan President Hamid Karzai more time to prove he can combat drugs without a Colombia-style military campaign of eradication from the air, but 2005 will be a key year to show progress. > > U.S. drug czar John Walters > … > denied that Washington has imposed a deadline on Karzai to make progress in reining in opium production or accept spraying to wipe out crops. [3 March](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L03308935.htm) > [@](#): > > Although the UK still officially leads international efforts to fight the Afghan drugs trade, the US has effectively taken over - having earmarked $780m (£408m) for anti-narcotics programmes over the next year. [2 March](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4312557.stm) > [@](#): > > Although farmers had noticed a white powder on their crops, they cut grass and clover for their animals and picked spinach to eat anyway. Within hours the animals were severely ill, people here said, and the villagers complained of fevers, skin rashes and bloody diarrhea. The children were particularly affected. A week later, the crops – wheat, vegetables and poppies – were dying, and a dozen dead animals, including newborn lambs, lay tossed in a heap. > … > In December, the Bush administration presented to Congress a budget request for US$152 million for aerial spraying as part of a US$776 million aid package for counternarcotics operations in Afghanistan for 2005. [Feb 28](http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/02/28/2003224920) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/35 "2005-03-04T05:30:35Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Although farmers had noticed a white powder on their crops, they cut grass and clover for their animals and picked spinach to eat anyway. Within hours the animals were severely ill, people here said, and the villagers complained of fevers, skin rashes and bloody diarrhea. The children were particularly affected. A week later, the crops – wheat, vegetables and poppies – were dying, and a dozen dead animals, including newborn lambs, lay tossed in a heap. > … > In December, the Bush administration presented to Congress a budget request for US$152 million for aerial spraying as part of a US$776 million aid package for counternarcotics operations in Afghanistan for 2005. :eek: I appreciate their intentions, but this is like using a flamethrower to rid a house of termites! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/36 "2005-03-04T15:17:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: > > I appreciate their intentions, but this is like using a flamethrower to rid a house of termites! Yep, poisoning the locals is bound to get them on our side. :rolleyes: WTF is wrong with us? Why do we keep fucking up? Or do we just not care? What a bloody ridiculous state of affairs when The Taliban are apparently resurgent. [Arab Media Reports: Taliban Are Back](http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/21401/) > [@](#): > > One of the Arab media’s most influential analysts is reporting that Afghanistan’s Taliban are gaining in strength and popularity, fighting U.S. forces in greater numbers and claiming the control of several districts. > [@](#): > > Among several indicators of expanding Taliban influence, Huwaidi finds that: > > - After the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, Taliban fighters launched attacks on U.S. and governmental forces in groups of 10 to 15 men. Now the Taliban attack in groups ranging from 100 to 150 men. > > # New Taliban leaders have appeared in Pakistani media, including military spokesmen and foreign relations officials. > > # The Taliban have launched a bimonthly newsletter called Masone, or “Appearance,” and distribute leaflets at night, in the same fashion that the mujahideen communicated with the Afghan public during the Soviet invasion. > > # Taliban leadership have gathered 600 signatures from Afghan religious scholars on a statement calling for jihad against American forces and distributed in northern provinces. The importance of religion in Muslim society and in Afghanistan gives the petition weight. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/37 "2005-03-04T15:19:06Z")
Oops - not the Pit. Apologies for Pit Language. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/38 "2005-03-05T03:05:19Z")
Just another illustration of the transcendent stupidity of the War on Drugs. But nothing gets a President’s rocks off more than the word “war”. Good intentions is always the excuse for whatever war they’re using for their perverted obsession. That’s a bipartisan judgement, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/39 "2005-03-05T11:54:30Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > We are building the first modern highways. We are laying the first modern power grid. We are building a modern telco system. You got a cite for all that? I was talking to an Afghan last week and he’d just got back from a trip home. He said his friends and family had reached the point where they were lamenting the demise of the Russian days, because at least the Russians built roads, improved educational standards etc. He said that the common view was that the US were interested in the place as a battleground. Period. I’m not saying that this guy I was talking to was the fount of definitive analysis of the Afghan situation, but it’s going to take more than an assertion by you, Brutus, to make me think he was lying. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970/40 "2005-03-05T17:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > The US Government Fiscal Year 2004 marks an extraordinary year of progress in Afghanistan. The year opened with the completion of the first layer of paving on the Kabul-Kandahar highway - a highly symbolic link between the north and the south. The year ended with the inauguration of a democratically-elected President and the installation of a permanent government. This Special Edition of Rebuilding Afghanistan highlights several key achievements of 2004. [http://www.usaid.gov/locations/asia\_near\_east/afghanistan/weeklyreports/011905\_report.html](http://www.usaid.gov/locations/asia_near_east/afghanistan/weeklyreports/011905_report.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-is-still-a-basket-case-can-anything-be-done/291970.md?page=3)