# Afghanistan: 'Our People Have Suffered So Much...' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2001, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454 "2001-09-13T21:26:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/201 "2001-09-19T05:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alan Smithee \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > > \*\*For the record, if that slimeball McVeigh could have been traced back to a brainwashed enclave like Waco, Texas, I would just about advocate bombing them too. \*\* > > I can’t believe that no one has responded to this yet. \*\* Did you notice the qualifier? I underlined it just in case you missed it the first time you read it. I have my limits and this is one of them. I just have an unlimited hatred for terrorists right now, if you couldn’t tell. Remember to try and take things in context, not as you wish to read them. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/202 "2001-09-19T05:05:58Z")
As of 1998, the Taliban controlled 90-95% of Afghanistan. [This](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec98/taliban_8-21.html) is a chilling article. Now, of course, if we see the Taliban as a rogue government in Afghanistan then it is, of course, possible that it is much more like a dictatorship, and that there are plenty of innocents all over, just trying to scrape a living. We should bomb military sites and move troops in rapidly to bring food to the people who need it. Perhaps army engineers can help build something resembling a country there so that it _isn’t_ another Vietnam. The people don’t have to love us, they just have to-- in this case-- hate us less. What a sorry state of affairs it is that makes me say that. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/203 "2001-09-20T02:00:55Z")
**Zenster** , please forgive me. I should have said that your comment **"is perhaps just about the most transparently disgusting thing I have ever read on this message board."** Not only did you just about advocate the US government turning weapons of destruction on its own citizenry without any moral or legal justification whatsoever, you did so in a manner that suggested that it would be more acceptable if it happened in a small, “backward” Southern town (“brainwashed enclave” was your exact term) than if it happened someplace else in the US, presumably someplace more like where you live. This is bigotted filth, and I ask you to please retract it. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/204 "2001-09-20T02:24:33Z")
Bigotted filth what? I suppose you approve instead of what the FBI and ATF did. How many died? Why is it we’ll never know the whole story? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/205 "2001-09-20T02:58:57Z")
**erislover** Did you read what I posted? Am I reading what you posted right? My point was that it is bigotted to suggest that because Waco happened to be home to the Branch Davidians (and also a small, Southern town), that it is a more acceptable target for bombing runs by the US government. How this translates into support for the FBI/ATF operation against the Branch Davidians is beyond me! I stated that we’ll never know whether the horrible accusations made against Koresh and his followers (child abuse, etc.) were true. Obviously this is because the government botched its operation. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/206 "2001-09-20T04:21:19Z")
“Bigoted.” One “T.” ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/207 "2001-09-20T11:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > An additional feature of overthrowing the United Arab Emirates is that we may be able to recover some of the economic damage to our country through appropriation of their oil reserves funnily enough, this was Iraq’s reasoning for invading Kuwait. Zenster, you really need to calm down. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/208 "2001-09-20T12:01:20Z")
actually, isn’t that a variation on Liebenstraum (sp)? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/209 "2001-09-22T06:31:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*actually, isn’t that a variation on Liebenstraum (sp)? \*\* You must be thinking of “_Liebesträum_” (Dream of Love), a piano composition by Franz Liszt. Featured in the climax of Ken Russell’s gonzo film _Lisztomania_ to accompany a fantastical science-fiction scene of the earth devastated by total warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/210 "2001-09-22T06:37:31Z")
Before anyone leaps in to correct me, I knew that the word ToF was groping for was _Lebensraum_ (‘living room’). I was just being a smart aleck. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/211 "2001-09-22T07:44:35Z")
> [@](#): > > How ironic it is that our moral compunctions will prevent us from lobbing a few cruise missiles into the the conclave of 200-300 of their clerics who will meet to discuss the surrender of bin Laden. Overlooking the obvious furor that would result from such an act, it would certainly decapitate the theocracy in Afghanistan in one fell swoop. Killing innocent civilians is going to cause a great deal of problems (if this happens). The deliberate targetting and murder of priests would cause more than "dubious furor’ among the population because only Satan himself would sink that low. This type of cowardly act could turn allies into enemies very quickly and at this time, America need all the friends it can get in the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![arara123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@arara123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arara123)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/212 "2001-09-22T17:01:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*actually, isn’t that a variation on Liebenstraum (sp)? \*\* I think you the term you want in _Anschluss_. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2001, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454/213 "2001-09-22T17:52:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alan Smithee \* > \*\ ***Zenster** , please forgive me. I should have said that your comment **"is perhaps just about the most transparently disgusting thing I have ever read on this message board."** > > Not only did you just about advocate the US government turning weapons of destruction on its own citizenry without any moral or legal justification whatsoever, you did so in a manner that suggested that it would be more acceptable if it happened in a small, “backward” Southern town (“brainwashed enclave” was your exact term) than if it happened someplace else in the US, presumably someplace more like where you live. This is bigotted filth, and I ask you to please retract it. \*\* I did not “just about” suggest America using weapons of destruction upon its own citizens. I used this as an example of just how outraged I am about terrorism, both international _and_ domestic. And where in Hades you managed to contrive that I think about Waco, Texas as a “small, ‘backward’ (Just who exactly are you quoting here? Because it certainly isn’t me.) Southern town”? **You have superimposed all sorts of vile undertones of your own invention upon a passing example made by me.** I will repeat, I **do not** advocate our government using weapons of destruction against our own citizens. I just feel that extreme measures are required in order to quell terrorism and that was an illustration of just how extreme my feelings are on the subject. Please stop trying to read bigotry and hatred into my words. I detest terrorists and want them all dead sooner than later, plain and simple and that is all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistan-our-people-have-suffered-so-much/81454.md?page=10)