# Afghanistan's Dirty Little Secret **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556 "2010-09-04T00:02:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/21 "2010-09-05T13:25:55Z")
^ People who live west of the Indus anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/22 "2010-09-05T13:53:17Z")
I guess if we don’t hear about it it is because of how heated a topic this is in the states, and how inconvenient a reality it is in afghanistan. What I mean is, we’re having enough trouble trying to stabilize the country and win hearts and minds as it is. If you try to prosecute fucked up things like this you might risk the whole operation which will be bad for everyone in the long run. I’m sure there are a whole number of crimes that are ignored for the time being. That’s the argument, I haven’t made my own mind up yet. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/23 "2010-09-05T14:13:48Z")
Not to worry. Given the West’s attention span deficit, we shall soon merrily hand boy over to rapists and girls over for sale to the highest bidder. But you know, war is bad and all. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/24 "2010-09-05T14:53:30Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Not to worry. Given the West’s attention span deficit, we shall soon merrily hand boy over to rapists and girls over for sale to the highest bidder. But you know, war is bad and all. Well, let’s put it this way: If Qatar (or Saudi Arabia) asked for the US’ military help within its borders, should the American forces also try to fight against human rights abuses within that country? Or should the US simply refuse any help until their human rights are improved? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/25 "2010-09-05T15:05:37Z")
I have seen stories on this in the past. When a society separates the sexes ,this is the result. You gotta do something. There is a lot of male gay sex in the middle east. Even at weddings they are separated and men dance with men while the women are in another room. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/26 "2010-09-05T15:41:27Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > If Qatar (or Saudi Arabia) asked for the US’ military help within its borders, should the American forces also try to fight against human rights abuses within that country? Or should the US simply refuse any help until their human rights are improved? (I am in Saudi Arabia. It is too much trouble to change my user name again.) The US should do all it can, where it can when it can and as well as it can. In Afghanistan is quite easy to reshape their sick culture all we need is some blood, some money and a couple of decades. Oh, and some guts. But what are the odds our generation has guts? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/27 "2010-09-06T03:27:21Z")
> [@Q.N.Jones](#): > > > [@even\_sven](#): > > > > Anyway, I don’t see how it’s so shocking and different when it’s boys. > > I find it interesting that a man residing in Thailand, a hotbed of forced child prostitution of girls AND boys, would consider what happens in Afghanistan to indicate that the Pashtuns are “bizarre.” In fact, it’s just a different flavor of an oh-so-common form of human depravity. Oh, you do? As I’ve pointed out here several times in the past, Thailand has cleaned up its act in that regard in the past decade or two and is not considered such these days, but the reputation lingers. It’s Cambodia next door where the vast majority of pedophiles visiting this region tend to end up. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/28 "2010-09-06T03:48:13Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > > [@Q.N.Jones](#): > > > > I find it interesting that a man residing in Thailand, a hotbed of forced child prostitution of girls AND boys, would consider what happens in Afghanistan to indicate that the Pashtuns are “bizarre.” In fact, it’s just a different flavor of an oh-so-common form of human depravity. > > Oh, you do? As I’ve pointed out here several times in the past, Thailand has cleaned up its act in that regard in the past decade or two and is not considered such these days, but the reputation lingers. It’s Cambodia next door where the vast majority of pedophiles visiting this region tend to end up. I’m aware of the efforts made to change this issue in Thailand. But for the purposes of my point, it doesn’t matter. You made the statement that Afghanistan is obviously a “whole other world” because of the forced prostitution of boys. My point is, it really isn’t different at all. Your own country has and is struggling with the same problem…as is the country next door…and plenty of other countries too. Child trafficking goes on in every country, in some form and to varying degrees. This doesn’t make the Pashtuns different from other humans. It makes them, depressingly, the same. My surprise is that someone from a country that has so openly struggled with the issue of child trafficking doesn’t see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/29 "2010-09-06T04:00:15Z")
> [@Q.N.Jones](#): > > > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > > > Oh, you do? As I’ve pointed out here several times in the past, Thailand has cleaned up its act in that regard in the past decade or two and is not considered such these days, but the reputation lingers. It’s Cambodia next door where the vast majority of pedophiles visiting this region tend to end up. > > I’m aware of the efforts made to change this issue in Thailand. But for the purposes of my point, it doesn’t matter. You made the statement that Afghanistan is obviously a “whole other world” because of the forced prostitution of boys. My point is, it really isn’t different at all. Your own country has and is struggling with the same problem…as is the country next door…and plenty of other countries too. Child trafficking goes on in every country, in some form and to varying degrees. This doesn’t make the Pashtuns different from other humans. It makes them, depressingly, the same. > > My surprise is that someone from a country that has so openly struggled with the issue of child trafficking doesn’t see it that way. I did not say it was a whole other world _because_ of this practice. I said it was further proof that it is, that’s all. I found the article interesting and I posted it. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/30 "2010-09-06T05:18:54Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I did not say it was a whole other world _because_ of this practice. I said it was further proof that it is, that’s all. > > I found the article interesting and I posted it. Get over it. So, you post these things, but don’t expect that anyone might want to discuss them…on a discussion board? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/31 "2010-09-06T09:58:16Z")
> [@Q.N.Jones](#): > > > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > > > I did not say it was a whole other world _because_ of this practice. I said it was further proof that it is, that’s all. > > > > I found the article interesting and I posted it. Get over it. > > So, you post these things, but don’t expect that anyone might want to discuss them…on a discussion board? What I don’t expect is to have my words twisted around to indicate falsely that I think this is the sole reason I think it’s a whole other world over there – or to suggest I am “surprised” by the situation, which I never expresssed and indeed am not at all surprised. Discuss it if you want, but stop putting words in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/32 "2010-09-06T10:09:16Z")
What I don’t see is the link between this and “intervention in Afghanistan”. I thought it was the armies that had gone there, not the Vice Squad, was I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/33 "2010-09-06T12:17:49Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > What I don’t see is the link between this and “intervention in Afghanistan”. I thought it was the armies that had gone there, not the Vice Squad, was I mistaken? Well one consequence of it was when a group or Marines were “rewarded” by some local warlords by having boys sent over to take care of them. Thus the Marines (or quite possibly Army Rangers) went over to beat the asses of the guys who sent these boys over. Hence.. once you’re over their you pretty much have to hold your tongue and your nose at this. My brother is currently in Kabul.. and pointed out that its quite disconcerting to have a meeting with some warlord’s big shot.. and have him lecture you on the depravity in the US while getting a foot massage from a 9 yr old boy. ``` Yes.. its a huge problem in other places too.. like Cambodia.. Brazil.. If the western world would actively prosecute our sick fucks who go their to participate perhaps that would help dry up the market?? ``` ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/34 "2010-09-06T12:22:11Z")
**Q.N. Jones** , it does appear that you are trying to put words in **Siam Sam** ’s mouth – don’t do that. That said, this seems like the thread has inched over into GD territory, so I’m moving it thither. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/35 "2010-09-06T15:32:53Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > **Q.N. Jones** , it does appear that you are trying to put words in **Siam Sam** ’s mouth – don’t do that. > > **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator I’m sorry. That was absolutely not my intention. I think I interpreted what he wrote in a way he did not intend. Nevertheless, if this is merely one piece of evidence that Afghanistan is a “whole other world” (his words), I still remain perplexed as to why he would feel that way, given how widespread child trafficking is. However, it seems he has no interest in explaining that, so I have no interest in pursuing a debate he seems not to want. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/36 "2010-09-06T15:54:50Z")
You mean to tell me they have different cultural practices in places like Afghanistan? I thought those hundreds of years of isolation would have ensured complete absorption of western values. Ignorance fought! That being said, what are we supposed to do about it? I want our guys and gals out of there as soon as possible. The Afghan government is, by some measures, the most corrupt in the world. They supply what… 90% of the world’s opium? They’re a tribal culture with Pashtuns lording it over the other ethnic groups. Al Qaeda is mostly gone, having taken up residence in nuclear armed Pakistan. Time for us to get the fuck out of there. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/37 "2010-09-06T15:58:38Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Trust a Western journalist to get a “scoop” which everyone and his uncle knew about. It ain’t a secret. And has not been one for oh about 400 years. I don’t recall either Fox or MSNBC or CNN covering the story. I suppose they felt that the pedophilia was unimportant.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/38 "2010-09-06T16:06:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > > [@AK84](#): > > > > Trust a Western journalist to get a “scoop” which everyone and his uncle knew about. It ain’t a secret. And has not been one for oh about 400 years. > > I don’t recall either Fox or MSNBC or CNN covering the story. I suppose they felt that the pedophilia was unimportant.:dubious: From [2008 on FoxNews’ website:](http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Nov24/0,4670,UNUNAfghanistanChildren,00.html) > [@](#): > > “Grave abuses” of children aren’t limited to the battlefield, Ban added. > > “Violence against children, specifically of a sexual nature, occurs particularly during times of instability,” he said. “The practice of `bacha-baazi’ (boy-play) consists of boys kept cloistered and used for sexual and harmful social entertainment by warlords and other armed group leaders.” Not exactly in the headline, but reported nonetheless. Wasn’t this practice part of the plot in _The Kite Runner_? It’s been awhile since I saw that movie. I also saw the \*Frontline \*episode on this earlier this year, but I have to admit this is not something I knew about until recently. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/39 "2010-09-06T16:08:55Z")
> [@Q.N.Jones](#): > > > [@even\_sven](#): > > > > Anyway, I don’t see how it’s so shocking and different when it’s boys. > > Ditto. Forced prostitution of children is hugely common in this world and always has been. I find it interesting that a man residing in Thailand, a hotbed of forced child prostitution of girls AND boys, would consider what happens in Afghanistan to indicate that the Pashtuns are “bizarre.” In fact, it’s just a different flavor of an oh-so-common form of human depravity. > > Forced child prostitution is NOT more morally repugnant when it is perpetrated on boys. But you agree, it is still morally repugnant … ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556/40 "2010-09-06T16:20:07Z")
> [@QN Jones](#): > > I’m aware of the efforts made to change this issue in Thailand. But for the purposes of my point, it doesn’t matter. You made the statement that Afghanistan is obviously a “whole other world” because of the forced prostitution of boys. My point is, it really isn’t different at all. Your own country has and is struggling with the same problem…as is the country next door…and plenty of other countries too. Child trafficking goes on in every country, in some form and to varying degrees. This doesn’t make the Pashtuns different from other humans. It makes them, depressingly, the same. > > My surprise is that someone from a country that has so openly struggled with the issue of child trafficking doesn’t see it that way. Could someone tell me where pedophilia is an accepted part of US mainstream culture, with dancing boys performing in public and civic leaders flaunting their child lovers to show how cool they are? I mean, we got pedophiles and child prostitution in the US, but so far as I know it’s a dark, secret society, since it’s about the only sexual practice other than rape that almost everyone in America consider to be criminal in nature and, well, morally repugnant. Saying it’s the same all over sounds to me very much like a false equivalence. Exactly like one, actually. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afghanistans-dirty-little-secret/552556.md?page=3)