# AFI - 100 Years of Film Scores **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 19, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782 "2005-08-19T18:43:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/1 "2005-08-19T18:43:26Z")
So the next AFI list of the top 25 scores (from American films, natch) is slated to come out next month, presented with a live concert at the Hollywood Bowl (though not a TV special, alas). So, the question is, limiting yourself to [the official ballot](http://www.afi.com/Docs/tvevents/pdf/scores250.pdf)… (1) What would be the 25 scores you’d vote for, if you could? (Note the voting criteria: Creative Impact, Historical Significance, and Legacy? (2) What 25 films do you predict will be on the final list–based on your expectations of how the AFI votes (based on [previous lists](http://www.afi.com/tvevents/100years/movies.aspx))? (3) What 5 scores constitute the most egregious omission from the ballot? I’ll be back with my own lists in a little bit… ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/2 "2005-08-19T18:55:47Z")
Wow, that list is way too big to shop from, so I’ll just throw in a few. Planet of the Apes (1968) North by Northwest Psycho Twilight Zone: The Movie ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/3 "2005-08-19T19:01:25Z")
Star Wars will be in the top 5, maybe even number 1. John Williams himself will probably be on the list five times. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/4 "2005-08-19T19:37:17Z")
Right off the top of my head I thought, “Anatomy of a Murder,” “Chinatown,” “Patton,” “The Magnificient Seven,” “The Pink Panther,” “The Third Man.” Glad to see they’re all on the ballot! ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/5 "2005-08-19T19:38:51Z")
Off the top of my head – using as a criteria, that if you can even think of a score for a movie that is 30, 50, 65 years old, it must be worthy of something: Gone with the Wind Laura Lawrence of Arabia Doctor Zhivago and everything by John Williams. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/6 "2005-08-19T19:39:32Z")
_Now, Voyager_ (Max Steiner). ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/7 "2005-08-19T19:52:30Z")
Some that I was glad to see on the list: Planet of the Apes Adventures of Robin Hood The Day the Earth Stood Still American Beauty To Kill A Mockingbird The Ten Commandments ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/8 "2005-08-19T20:02:52Z")
Personally I find it a travesty that **Jurassic Park** isn’t listed. That may be my favorite score of all times. I can listen to the music and _hear_ the size and majesty of the dinosaurs, the fear of the victims, the cruelty of the raptors. It’s perfect…and sadly neglected by AFI. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/9 "2005-08-19T20:04:40Z")
Oh and for what AFI will choose. I guaran-damn-tee you’ll see Wizard of Oz, Gone With The Wind, and Casablanca because God forbid there should be an AFI list without those three somewhere in the top 10. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/10 "2005-08-19T20:18:14Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#): > > Personally I find it a travesty that **Jurassic Park** isn’t listed. That may be my favorite score of all times. I can listen to the music and _hear_ the size and majesty of the dinosaurs, the fear of the victims, the cruelty of the raptors. It’s perfect…and sadly neglected by AFI. Call me a fuddy duddy, but I don’t think that John Williams deserves to make the cut. His scores are so safe and so generic. OK, maybe Star Wars. Maybe. But I always felt he was overrated. And I used to study film scoring, so consider this an argument from authority. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/11 "2005-08-19T20:41:43Z")
They must be limiting the ballot to music written specifically for the film, and not those that used popular or period music. Otherwise _The Sting_, _2001: A Space Odyssey_ and _American Graffiti_ would have to be there. (Maybe they don’t count _2001_ as american. but the other two?) ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/12 "2005-08-19T20:52:30Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > They must be limiting the ballot to music written specifically for the film, and not those that used popular or period music. Otherwise _The Sting_, _2001: A Space Odyssey_ and _American Graffiti_ would have to be there. (Maybe they don’t count _2001_ as american. but the other two?) Well what are ya gonna do, give an award to Strauss? :dubious: Yes, these are for original film scores. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/13 "2005-08-19T21:06:20Z")
My Votes: (in chronological order) _King Kong_ – Steiner _Bride of Frankenstein_ – Waxman _The Adventures of Robin Hood_ – Korngold _Of Mice and Men_ – Copland _Laura_ – Raksin _Spellbound_ – Rozsa _The Best Years of Our Lives_ – Friedhofer _The Ghost & Mrs. Muir_ – Herrmann _The Day the Earth Stood Still_ – Herrmann _A Streetcar Named Desire_ – North _Rebel without a Cause_ – Rosenman _Sweet Smell of Success_ – Bernstein _The Big Country_ – Moross _Anatomy of a Murder_ – Ellington _Psycho_ – Herrmann _Breakfast at Tiffany’s_ – Mancini _Lawrence of Arabia_ – Jarre _To Kill a Mockingbird_ – Bernstein _Cool Hand Luke_ – Schifrin _The Lion in Winter_ – Barry _Planet of the Apes_ – Goldsmith _Once Upon a Time in the West_ – Morricone _Chinatown_ – Goldsmith _Jaws_ – Williams _Conan the Barbarian_ – Poledouris My Predictions: _King Kong_ – Steiner _The Adventures of Robin Hood_ – Korngold _Gone With the Wind_ – Steiner _The Wizard of Oz_ – Stothart _The Third Man_ – Karas _A Streetcar Named Desire_ – North _Vertigo_ – Herrmann _Anatomy of a Murder_ – Ellington _Ben-Hur_ – Rozsa _North by Northwest_ – Herrmann _The Magnificent Seven_ – Bernstein _Psycho_ – Herrmann _Breakfast at Tiffany’s_ – Mancini _Lawrence of Arabia_ – Jarre _To Kill a Mockingbird_ – Bernstein _How the West Was Won_ – Waxman _Goldfinger_ – Barry _Once Upon a Time in the West_ – Morricone _Patton_ – Goldsmith _The Godfather_ – Rota _Jaws_ – Williams _Star Wars_ – Williams _E.T. : The Extra-Terrestrial_ – Williams _Schindler’s List_ – Williams _American Beauty_ – Newman Disney films have typically unfairly monopolized movie music lists and awards for the last several decades, so it was a relief to discover only a handful of Disney films on the ballot. But to exclude Leigh Harline’s brilliant work for **Pinocchio** is just wrong. The MIA **On Dangerous Ground** is quite possibly the greatest score by America’s greatest film composer, Bernard Herrmann. David Shire managed a few inclusions on the ballot (including the terrific _Taking of Pelham One Two Three_), but his masterful work on **The Conversation** wasn’t one of them. And finally, my votes for the three best scores of the 80s are _The Empire Strikes Back_ (though there is a ton of Williams already), **Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure** (still Danny Elfman’s best score), and the magnificent **Under Fire** by Jerry Goldsmith. ---
**Author:** ![waits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df788c/32.png) [@waits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waits)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/14 "2005-08-19T21:07:24Z")
Unless I’m greatly mistaken, I didn’t see any animated films on the list. I was specifically looking for _ **Snow White and the Seven Dwarves** _ and _ **Toy Story** _. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/15 "2005-08-19T21:13:45Z")
> [@waits](#): > > Unless I’m greatly mistaken, I didn’t see any animated films on the list. I was specifically looking for _ **Snow White and the Seven Dwarves** _ and _ **Toy Story** _. _Bambi’s_ there, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/16 "2005-08-19T21:17:26Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Well what are ya gonna do, give an award to Strauss? I was thinking of Joplin. The music in those movies I cited did a brilliant job of setting the mood, goes perfectly with the film and is memorable in its own right. When I think of movies with the best use of music, those three are on the list; so what if it wasn’t written just for the film. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/17 "2005-08-20T15:52:31Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > I was thinking of Joplin. > > The music in those movies I cited did a brilliant job of setting the mood, goes perfectly with the film and is memorable in its own right. When I think of movies with the best use of music, those three are on the list; so what if it wasn’t written just for the film. The award is for best **original** score. While there is certainly a skill in choosing a non-original piece that fits well, writing to the film is a whole different ball game. What you’re talking about is like praising me for being a brilliant painter because I hung a print of a Monet in my living room. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/18 "2005-08-20T16:32:02Z")
Having just re-watched Requiem for a Dream, I was disappointed (but not surprised) that it wasn’t listed. I like Fargo’s score. I’m no music expert but I think it does it’s job well. I’m no music expert though… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/19 "2005-08-20T20:39:00Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Call me a fuddy duddy, but I don’t think that John Williams deserves to make the cut. His scores are so safe and so generic. OK, maybe Star Wars. Maybe. But I always felt he was overrated. I hate it when people say that. Yes, his Wagnerian shtick is usually there on his scores, but they’re very well done. “safe and so generic”? There was a 10 year (or so) gap in film music where orchestras simply disappeared from major motion pictures. It took Williams, Spielberg, and Lucas to bring the sound back with Jaws and Star Wars. What Williams did, as you no doubt know, was take it from where North left off and has composed nothing but quality music. If you want “safe and so generic” you should probably hear Hans Zimmer’s latest output and the fabric that is Media Ventures. Theirs is a standard sound, it’s simple, and it’s repeated over and over (same music). Williams’ music is at least good music, better than most in the business. However, if you want examples of Williams not playing it safe or being generic, you could check out the following: Images A.I. The Fury Nixon War of the Worlds Also, it annoys me that because what everyone remembers from certain scores (as in the soprano melodies in A.I.) they believe that is _all_ he composed or that the rest of score is the same. “maybe Star Wars”? I dare anyone listen to the tracks “The Battle of Hoth” and “The Asteroid Field” _in their entirety_ and call them generic. “Melodies” doesn’t equal “generic” to me. Having your own style being an extension of a famous work or composer is not generic, either. By that token, Herrmann would be a rip-off artist of Shostakovich’s Symphony for Strings. It’s when the quality of the work decreases and it becomes redundant with each score (as in “James Horner/MV redundant”) that it’s generic and safe. PC discalimer (i.e. Me playing it safe and being generic 😃 ): This post is not directed at you entirely. My thoughts usually run when I’m addressing a specific issue. I can’t help it. It’s just that by the descriptions I usually see from the Williams detractors (again, not saying you’re one of them) it seems almost certain that Williams would fail composition class. That irks me somehow. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782/20 "2005-08-20T22:32:57Z")
> [@The Hook](#): > > I hate it when people say that. Yes, his Wagnerian shtick is usually there on his scores, but they’re very well done. “safe and so generic”? There was a 10 year (or so) gap in film music where orchestras simply disappeared from major motion pictures. It took Williams, Spielberg, and Lucas to bring the sound back with Jaws and Star Wars. What Williams did, as you no doubt know, was take it from where North left off and has composed nothing but quality music. Well yeah, there’s that. And his score for Schindler’s List was brilliant. It’s just that often when he’s teamed up with Spielberg, his best known works sound a little twee to me. But I recently had a chance to hear his theme from Star Wars done as a concert piece, and I have to admit, it hangs together as a pretty solid work. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afi-100-years-of-film-scores/317782.md?page=2)