# AFI's 100 Heroes & Villains **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 4, 2003, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553 "2003-06-04T10:11:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/81 "2003-06-04T21:43:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*“Eve I know you mention Theda Bera but which role do you refer to which has remained with us all this time. This list is for the characters as ichons.” > > Theda Bara as The Vampire in [A Fool There Was](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0005339). And yes, it’s available on video. If not the first villainess, the first influential one, and certainly the first evil siren in a major film—and a huge icon for film villainesses to follow. \*\* Well, at least that character was nominated, so AFI didn’t completely forget about her. She just didn’t get voted into the top 50 that made it to the TV special. Here’s the PDF of the [400 nominees](http://www.afi.com/tv/pdf/handv400.pdf), if anyone’s interested. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/82 "2003-06-04T21:51:20Z")
Most glaring omission (villain): **Jack Palance** as Jack Wilson in **Shane**. [Jack Palance hiss] “Go ahead…Pick it up!” [/Jack Palance hiss] ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/83 "2003-06-04T21:53:47Z")
Oh yeah, and as for including Man (from Bambi), everyone knows that if you’re going to list a Disney villain, number one on the list has to be Cruella DeVille. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/84 "2003-06-04T22:06:17Z")
I don’t take lists like the AFI’s too seriously. At best, they’re good for a few moments of idle conversation. (Now, if it was a list on, say, what the greatest individual sports records are, then I would set aside a few days for debate.) Still, I question whether real life/historical figures (e.g., Karen Silkwood, Spartacus, Bonnie & Clyde, etc.) should be included on the list. Also, there’s the matter of whether some of the characters can truly be classified as villains. For example, in the context of the film itself, Bonnie and Clyde aren’t really villains but Depression-era Robin Hoods–a point supported by the movie’s director, Arthur Penn. Yet, on the same list, Robin Hood himself is classified as a “hero”. (Of course, in real life, Bonnie and Clyde were a lot more violent and sociopathic.) As for missing villains, I agree on Tommy DeVito from **Goodfellas** and would add John Doe from **Seven**. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/85 "2003-06-04T22:29:40Z")
I don’t want to hijack this thread. Do a search for “Joan Crawford” in past threads, and I’d be happy to revive 'em. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/86 "2003-06-04T22:34:54Z")
Speaking of Eve: I notice that the character of Eve Harrington, in the movie _All About Eve_, is listed as the 23rd top-rated villain of all time. Was there anybody in that movie that **wasn’t** a villain, though? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/87 "2003-06-04T22:41:50Z")
Why, Birdie (“Everything but the bloodhounds yappin’ at her behind”) and Miss Caswell (“Why do they always look like unhappy rabbits?”) ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/88 "2003-06-04T22:47:38Z")
What made her the worst of the lot, **tracer** , was that she was Miss Goody Two Shoes at the beginning and was only revealed to be manipulative and cunning near the end. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/89 "2003-06-04T23:49:06Z")
The list of nominees is interesting reading…I would’ve liked to have seen Fu Manchu (Mask of Fu Manchu), the Castevets (Rosemary’s Baby), Doyle Lonnegan (the Sting) and Uncle Charlie (Shadow of a Doubt) over many of the villains who made the top 50. I can’t believe Alan Arkin’s character in **Wait Until Dark** wasn’t even nominated. Not enough screen time, I suppose, but he was certainly a memorable villain. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/90 "2003-06-05T01:37:39Z")
My friends and I were, at first, surprised that Bonnie & Clyde were listed as villains. Then we were surprised at ourselves for _not_ thinking that. For some reason, even though they robbed banks, shot people, and killed police officers for a living, we still don’t think of them as “bad guys.” Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/91 "2003-06-05T02:59:58Z")
I’m quite POed that I missed this show. I guess I will catch it in summer reruns. And really, for those who haven’t seen the movie, shouldn’t they really have said Kaiser Soze, not Verbal Kint? ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/92 "2003-06-05T04:16:15Z")
But they showed him. They couldn’t show him and call him Keyser Soze without spoiling the movie even more completely than showing him and calling him Verbal Kint and saying he’s a villain does. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/93 "2003-06-05T10:21:16Z")
Interesting how Star Wars had 3 characters, and Silence of the Lambs 2. Did any other movies have multiple entries? I’m too lazy to check. 🙂 Oh, and I’m positive they put Terminator on both lists to get Arnold Schwarzenegger to host the show. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/94 "2003-06-05T10:22:28Z")
Well, the choices were voted on, not selected by the AFI, though… but then again, maybe they influenced the voters, hm? ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/95 "2003-06-05T12:10:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Speaking of Eve: > > I notice that the character of Eve Harrington, in the movie _All About Eve_, is listed as the 23rd top-rated villain of all time. > > Was there anybody in that movie that **wasn’t** a villain, though? \*\* I’m fairly certain Marilyn Monroe’s character was devoid of villainy. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/96 "2003-06-05T12:32:49Z")
Ok I think I’ll open two new threads to nominate the greatest Vilians and Heros in Filmdom. so that it stays in the cafe You must give a reason for your votes. The rules will be listed… see you there. ---
**Author:** ![Fish42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@Fish42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish42)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/97 "2003-06-05T16:21:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KGS \* > \*\*Interesting how Star Wars had 3 characters, and Silence of the Lambs 2. Did any other movies have multiple entries? I’m too lazy to check. 🙂 > \*\* “It’s A Wonderful Life”: George Bailey as a hero, Mr. Potter as a villain. “Goldfinger”: James Bond as a hero, Auric Goldfinger as a villain. “Schindler’s List”: Oskar Schindler as a hero; Amon Goeth as a villain. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/98 "2003-06-05T16:29:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kingpengvin \* > \*\*Ok I think I’ll open two new threads to nominate the greatest Vilians and Heros in Filmdom. so that it stays in the cafe You must give a reason for your votes. The rules will be listed… see you there. \*\* See, they shoulda asked _us_ first! ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/99 "2003-06-05T17:48:42Z")
**racinchikki, porcupine** I’ve avoided Usual Suspect spoilers all these years, and have just Tivo’d it and was about to watch it for the first time. Perhaps you could familiarize yourself with the spoiler box? One thing from the show: I had no idea that Ripley (Alien) had a first name (Ellen), or Alex (Clockwork Orange) had a last name (deLarge). ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553/100 "2003-06-05T18:19:15Z")
In the novel, Alex referred to himself as “the large”, apparently in reference to his manhood and a pun on “Alexander the Great”, but his last name does not actually appear. In the movie he gives it as “DeLarge”, but newspapers show it as “Burgess”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/afis-100-heroes-villains/179553.md?page=6)