# Africa gets its first female president before the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897 "2006-01-13T23:43:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/41 "2006-01-15T16:15:51Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > Merkel wasn’t elected. She was negotiated in. That’s not really a fair criticism, on two counts. First, since under the German system it’s very rare for one party to have an absolute majority in the Bundestag, necessitating negotiations for a coalition after nearly every election. By your standard, what German Chancellor could lay claim to being “elected”? Second, under the German system the Chancellor is elected by a positive vote of the Bundestag, once the negotiations for the coalition Cabinet have been completed. So Merkel was elected like every German Chancellor in the post-war system: by a vote of the Bundestag. I would, however, draw a distinction betwee this case and the case in a parliamentary system where the first minister retires, the party elects a new party head who becomes first minister, calls an election, and is defeated. So for example, Kim Campbell being PM of Canada doesn’t count for much, since she did not hold office by virtue of winning a general election, only the internal party election. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/42 "2006-01-15T16:26:34Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > So for example, Kim Campbell being PM of Canada doesn’t count for much, since she did not hold office by virtue of winning a general election, only the internal party election. By the same logic you’d have to say that President Ford doesn’t count for much. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/43 "2006-01-15T17:13:40Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > By the same logic you’d have to say that President Ford doesn’t count for much. Yes, if you’re focusing on him becoming President. You can’t say his becoming President marked a groundswell of conservativism, like Reagan’s election, or the rise of the baby boomer generation to positions of power, like Clinton’s. Ford becoming Prez was a double-fluke. I do say that Ford counts for something for some of the things he did once he became President, notably the pardon. PM Campbell never had a chance to govern, so counts for very little, other than presiding over the demise of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/44 "2006-01-15T19:16:13Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Let’s not be picky here. If you like, you can consider the question: > “Why is the U.S. behind England, India, Pakistan, Germany and Liberia in this respect?” > > Or more generally: > “Why hasn’t the U.S. elected a woman president yet?” Good thing you aren’t being picky since Thatcher although English was not Prime Minister of England. There’s no such thing. And here’s the [first](http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/20/newsid_2784000/2784527.stm) woman Prime Minister to be elected in the world apparently, although she did have an unfortunate head start on the other candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/45 "2006-01-15T20:13:37Z")
> [@Vetch](#): > > Good thing you aren’t being picky since Thatcher although English was not Prime Minister of England. There’s no such thing. As long as we’re being picky here, I never said that Thatcher was the Prime Minister of England. I only said “England had Thatcher”, which is technically true, since England is part of the UK. And, [while we’re at it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_%28terminology%29) : > [@wikipedia](#): > > The various terms used to describe the different (and sometimes overlapping) geographical and political regions of the islands traditionally referred to collectively as the British Isles are often a source of confusion for people from other parts of the world, and even for the inhabitants of those islands themselves. You guys need to cut down on the number of ways to describe your setup 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/46 "2006-01-15T20:28:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I didn’t know that **Africa** _had_ a President. :dubious: Well, you saved me the trouble. Thanks. “Africaisnotamonolithiccultureorasinglecountry” blah blah blah… ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/47 "2006-01-15T20:48:56Z")
John Mace writes: \> Of course if it’s Hillary, we will be following in the renowned 3rd World tradition \> of electing wives or daughters of former Presidents. Northern Piper writes: \> As opposed to the renowned American tradition of electing the widows of \> former Governors/Senators/Congressmen when the guy dies suddenly? And then there’s the renowned American tradition of electing the son or grandson of a former President as the President. There are also many cases of a son of an officeholder (a governor, senator, or congressman) being elected to the same post. There are a lot of political families in the U.S. where a number of relatives have been elected to major political posts. I’ve never seen any statistics on this subject. I suspect the U.S. is about average in the amount of family connections in politics. There are certainly countries where it’s more common for several members of a family to be elected to political posts, but there are also countries where it’s less common. Does anyone have any statistics on this subject? If family connections never played any part, it would be quite rare for a couple members of a family to both be elected to major political office. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/48 "2006-01-15T20:57:16Z")
Notice how every one of these countries that have had a woman leader have a legacy of once having their sovereignty controled by the British or by the descendants of the British. Kudos to the British ! ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/49 "2006-01-15T22:31:31Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > Notice how every one of these countries that have had a woman leader have a legacy of once having their sovereignty controled by the British or by the descendants of the British. Kudos to the British ! That does seem to be true (except for Germany and Liberia mentioned above). So, why the the British legacy fail in Australia, which has never had a woman as Prime Minister or Govrnor General? Is it the influence of the US in Autralia? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/50 "2006-01-15T23:31:05Z")
Add [Chile](http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17835535%255E1702,00.html) to the list. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/51 "2006-01-15T23:41:18Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > That does seem to be true (except for Germany and Liberia mentioned above). So, why the the British legacy fail in Australia, which has never had a woman as Prime Minister or Govrnor General? Is it the influence of the US in Autralia? I think it’s simply that no credible female contenders for the Prime Ministership have yet emerged. Those touted (Bronwyn Bishop, Carmen Lawrence, Cheryl Kernot) all turned out to be fairly lacklustre. Voters want competence in their Prime Minister and I don’t think they’ll ever elect an incompetent woman just because of her sex. Note though that there have been two women state premiers (Joan Kirner in VIC and Carmen Lawrence in WA) but I think both were installed after an election. The two territories have both elected female chief ministers - the former ACT Chief Minister Kate Carnell and the current NT Chief Minister Claire Martin. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/52 "2006-01-16T01:02:46Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The problem with this statement, as with the OP, is that it is incorrect to compare an entire continent with a single country, no matter how large or small. Unless you’re talking about Australia. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![zahara2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/53a042/32.png) [@zahara2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zahara2)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/53 "2006-01-16T17:39:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I didn’t know that **Africa** _had_ a President. :dubious: > > 😛 > > But that’s a very real point. Being President of Liberia means less than being Governor of any decent sized US State, and we have had quite a few female Governors. How So? ---
**Author:** ![zahara2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/53a042/32.png) [@zahara2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zahara2)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/54 "2006-01-16T17:41:07Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Whoah there. Would you say that to a Liberian’s face? He has and I am duly offended. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/55 "2006-01-16T17:55:50Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Wasn’t that _Corazón_ Aquino in the Philippines? Oops, yes. > [@Polerius](#): > > You guys need to cut down on the number of ways to describe your setup It’s quite simple. “The United Kingdom” is the name of the country. It extends over two islands: Great Britain (containing England, Scotland, and Wales), and Ireland (containing Northern Ireland). The nationality is “British”, though some people use their primary nationality first. (Unless you’re a Northern Irish nationalist, where you might identify as “Irish”). OK, it’s not simple. But it isn’t _too_ complicated. The problem seems to lie with people overseas saying “English” when they mean “British”. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/56 "2006-01-16T18:27:21Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Oops, yes.It’s quite simple. > > “The United Kingdom” is the name of the country. It extends over two islands: Great Britain (containing England, Scotland, and Wales), and Ireland (containing Northern Ireland). > > The nationality is “British”, though some people use their primary nationality first. (Unless you’re a Northern Irish nationalist, where you might identify as “Irish”). > > OK, it’s not simple. But it isn’t _too_ complicated. The problem seems to lie with people overseas saying “English” when they mean “British”. > > [/hijack] Kind of like _American_ vs. _US citizen_. Not exactly, but kind of. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/57 "2006-01-16T19:15:17Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > PM Campbell never had a chance to govern, so counts for very little, other than presiding over the demise of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. There are many who believe that Campbell was elected precisely because of the impending demise of the PC party: everyone knew that whoever was elected would have their career destroyed, so they elected the most dispensible of the candidates. (Her main opponent, Jean Charest, remains active and reasonably successful, while her career was over after the election.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/58 "2006-01-16T19:23:40Z")
> [@zahara2](#): > > How So? The USA\* hasn’t \*had any female governors? 😕 **zahara2** Why? California has a population ten times that of Liberia- fact. It’s economy is many _many_ times that. The land area is nearly 4 times as much. California would be the 6th most powerful nation in the world if it was a nation rather than a state. Ask a Foriegner (non-North American or Non-African) who is the President of Liberia and who is the Governor of California- see how many more get CA right. Like I said- Africa has around 55 nations, which VERY roughly corresponds to the 50 states of America in terms of number of chances to elect a chief executive. (Hmm, it seems that the USA has had more female Governors than “Africa” has had female Heads of State). I am sure Liberia’s president has a tough job, and I respect that. But if one _can_ compare the job of Chief Executive of a political enity, then some of those postitions are less/more important than others, like it or not. Being President of the USA thus “means more” than Prime Minister of Tuvalu. For that matter, I’d cheerfully concede that being President of Liberia “means more” than President of the Seychelles. Or- Governor of North Dakota. Liberia is one of the more important African nations, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/59 "2006-01-17T00:03:11Z")
DrDeth writes: \> California has a population ten times that of Liberia- fact. It’s economy is many \> many times that. The land area is nearly 4 times as much. California would be \> the 6th most powerful nation in the world if it was a nation rather than a state. \> Ask a Foriegner (non-North American or Non-African) who is the President of \> Liberia and who is the Governor of California- see how many more get CA right. And yet Liberia now has a woman president, one who pledges to make sure that the cabinet will be half women also. And California? California has for its governor an actor whose career was pretty much over in leading roles. (Come to think of it, they did that once before, didn’t they?) An actor who, despite living in the U.S. for most of his life, still speaks English with a heavy accent. But, hey, Californians, don’t give up. I’m sure that if you work at it, you may yet rise to the cultural level of Liberia. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897/60 "2006-01-17T00:34:56Z")
I give you [Vaira Vike-Freiberga](http://www.president.lv/), former Canadian refugee and President of Latvia since 1999. Also, there was a woman Norwegian PM and at least one Finnish one, possibly two, during the past ten years. I think there might have been a Lithuanian as well. Can somebody help me out with names here? People in these countries have some seriously weird names. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/africa-gets-its-first-female-president-before-the-us/339897.md?page=4)