# African Americans in 19th Century London **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 23, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434 "2018-02-23T21:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/1 "2018-02-23T21:18:46Z")
I’ve been watching The Frankenstein Chronicles on Netflix which takes place in 19th century London. In it there’s an African American character named Joseph Nightingale who is a police officer. This has me wondering; would this have really been possible for an African American at this time and place? ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/2 "2018-02-23T21:31:48Z")
[Yes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kent_(police_officer)) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/3 "2018-02-23T21:32:40Z")
Are you sure they were African American and not just, you know, African, or maybe Black British? Because yes, it would be a bit weird for an American (black or otherwise) to be a police officer in 19th-century London. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/4 "2018-02-23T21:44:32Z")
> [@TRC4941](#): > > I’ve been watching The Frankenstein Chronicles on Netflix which takes place in 19th century London. In it there’s an African American character named Joseph Nightingale who is a police officer. This has me wondering; would this have really been possible for an African American at this time and place? I’ve seen it too, though I didn’t see anything to suggest he was meant to be African American as he had a British accent and from what I remember his background is only discussed briefly to say that he is an orphan. He wasn’t the only character played by black actor either (Billy the child catcher was played by Robbie Gee, whose more well-known for playing comic roles). There were certainly black British people by the 19th century at several levels of British society (the first black student graduated from Oxford in 1876), but only a small number as significant black immigration in to the UK didn’t start until the late 1940s. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/5 "2018-02-23T21:53:56Z")
I should add then that a black British police officer in the 1820s is not a completely outrageous historical liberty, but probably not historically accurate either as the 1st recorded black police officer in the UK became a constable in 1837, and in Carlisle, rather than London. edited to add: I see **Aspidistra** has already mentioned this. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/6 "2018-02-23T22:09:22Z")
small numbers of black people lived in Britain but they were mostly clustered around the London Docks or the Tiger Bay area of Cardiff. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/7 "2018-02-23T23:05:30Z")
Are black people called ‘african americans’ in England? Do you mean a US immigrant to the UK, or a native born person in the UK, or an immigrant from Africa? There were some black police officers in the US in the late 19th century. > **[A History of African Americans in Law Enforcement](https://cops.usdoj.gov/html/dispatch/02-2017/african_americans_in_law_enforcement.asp)** > > The Community Policing Dispatch is the e-newsletter of the COPS Office. It aims to educate readers about a variety of criminal justice issues that affect the implementation of community policing and to assist law enforcement practitioners in more... The UK supposedly has better race relations than the US does, so if anything you’d expect them to be ahead of us on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/8 "2018-02-23T23:54:58Z")
Sorry everyone! I misspoke when I said African American. You know what I meant… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/9 "2018-02-24T03:39:03Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Are black people called ‘african americans’ in England? Only by Americans. The Brits tend to find it a bit irritating, if you’re neither you really want to get out of the line of fire when it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/10 "2018-02-24T04:00:28Z")
I remember I once saw a Black History Month poster in a school that identified Nelson Mandela as a “great African American”. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/11 "2018-02-24T06:22:32Z")
> [@TRC4941](#): > > This has me wondering; would this have really been possible for an African American at this time and place? Why not? Many Britons of the period were remarkably forward thinking for their day, believing that given time, education and guidance, roles of public authority were not beyond the reach of even Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Seren359](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@Seren359](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seren359)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/12 "2018-02-24T06:56:39Z")
On the other hand It could just be the token black person that must appear in all tv programs now! ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/13 "2018-02-24T15:21:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I remember I once saw a Black History Month poster in a school that identified Nelson Mandela as a “great African American”. > [@Seren359](#): > > On the other hand > It could just be the token black person that must appear in all tv programs now! I was thinking the same thing! Let’s erease the words African American…please. What I meant to ask is, would a black man in 19th Century London be able to have the job of a policeman? Was there racism there like there was in the US? How were blacks treated in other countries at that time? THAT’S what I was getting at. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/14 "2018-02-24T20:19:11Z")
> [@TRC4941](#): > > I was thinking the same thing! > > Let’s erease the words African American…please. What I meant to ask is, would a black man in 19th Century London be able to have the job of a policeman? Was there racism there like there was in the US? How were blacks treated in other countries at that time? THAT’S what I was getting at. Did you even read the second post? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/15 "2018-02-24T20:40:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I remember I once saw a Black History Month poster in a school that identified Nelson Mandela as a “great African American”. I remember reading an article about _Star Trek: Voyager_ that described Tuvok as “Starfleet’s first African-American Vulcan”, which struck me as ridiculous as the character is neither African nor American. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/16 "2018-02-24T20:53:03Z")
I actually (not having known anything about the Frankenstein Chronicles) hadn’t realised the question was about the really early 19th Century, and that adds another aspect to the question - the social status of “policemen” at the time. Bow Street Runners weren’t actual official policemen as we’d understand it - they were semi-independent magistrate’s officials. And to the best of my knowledge (historians feel free to chime in here…) they weren’t enormously respected at the time. Not only was the whole “police” thing newfangled, it was the sort of thing those damn \*French \*did, and probably the first steps on the road to an authoritarian state. And the ‘thief-takers’ - the precursors to the Bow Street Runners - had a bit of a name for corruption, which didn’t necessarily help the organisation, and its funding was sometimes a little precarious. All in all, a hard dangerous crappy job - and a man’s got to earn his living at _something_. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/17 "2018-02-24T21:15:58Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > they weren’t enormously respected at the time. The idea of police officers being especially upstanding members of society is a fairly recent thing. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/18 "2018-02-24T22:34:11Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > There were certainly black British people by the 19th century at several levels of British society (the first black student graduated from Oxford in 1876), but only a small number as significant black immigration in to the UK didn’t start until the late 1940s. London has been an international trading centre for two millennia. Black people would not have been unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/19 "2018-02-24T23:31:49Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > London has been an international trading centre for two millennia. Black people would not have been unknown. The subject came up in a Doctor Who thread a while back, when disbelief was expressed at the show depicting black people in t17th Century London, which was obviously just pandering to modern politically correct notions of diversity. [Except, y’know, not so much:](http://originalpeople.org/history-of-blacks-in-britain-elizabeth-i-kicks-moors-out-of-england/) > [@Liz da Phiz](#): > > “there are of late divers blackmoores brought into this realme, of which kinde of people there are allready here to manie…” eta [Found it.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=773446) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434/20 "2018-02-24T23:36:35Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I remember reading an article about _Star Trek: Voyager_ that described Tuvok as “Starfleet’s first African-American Vulcan”, which struck me as ridiculous as the character is neither African nor American. I was going to mention that same article! I believe it was in TV Guide. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-americans-in-19th-century-london/809434.md?page=2)