# African Canadians ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726 "2009-07-30T00:06:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BKReporter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@BKReporter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BKReporter)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/21 "2009-07-30T13:56:22Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I don’t know whether it’s an urban legend that sections of the US media used to refer to Nelson Mandela as “African American”, because their style books indicated that this was preferred over “black”. Actually the AP Stylebook, the standard guide in most newsrooms, states that “black” is the “preferred usage for those of the Negroid or black race.” ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/22 "2009-07-30T13:59:20Z")
> [@BKReporter](#): > > Actually the AP Stylebook, the standard guide in most newsrooms, states that “black” is the “preferred usage for those of the Negroid or black race.” lol, does it say anything about the use of terms like the “Negroid” race? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/23 "2009-07-30T14:01:38Z")
Well, there’s the Americo-Liberians in Liberia, who are the descendents of slaves repatriated to Africa: > **[Liberia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia)** > > Liberia (/laɪˈbɪriə/ i), officially the Republic of Liberia, is a country on the West African coast. It is bordered by Sierra Leone to its northwest, Guinea to its north, Ivory Coast to its east, and the Atlantic Ocean to its south and southwest. It has a population of around 5 million and covers an area of 43,000 square miles (111,369 km2). The country's official language is English; however, over 20 indigenous languages are spoken, reflecting the country's ethnic and cultural diversity. The ... ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/24 "2009-07-30T14:05:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Another factor involved here is that other countries have issues with the United States having exclusive use of the term “American”. A black person in Canada, Mexico, or Brazil could qualify as an African-American because they have African ancestry and live in North or South America. While I know that Central and (especially) South Americans tend to dislike people from the USA using the term ‘American’ to describe themselves, I’ve never found this to be the case with Canadians or Mexicans. Is there a substantial portion of either of those two countries who view themselves as ‘American’? ---
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/25 "2009-07-30T14:06:07Z")
In Britain I usually hear the term “Afro-Caribbean”, meaning that the individual concerned most likely originates from those two areas (the majority of the non-white, or arguably non-Celtic for that matter, people are immigrants rather than former slaves). I’ve certainly never heard the phrase “African-Briton” or some such derivative used except one French tourist (who received some puzzled looks, even from his countrymen). ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/26 "2009-07-30T14:07:39Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > lol, does it say anything about the use of terms like the “Negroid” race? 🙂 Not sure what you are laughing about. “Negroid” is the original (and presumably still “correct”) term for the supposed “race” of humans for which we use the shorthand term “black” in this country (black = negro in Spanish, thus Negroid = those who are black). Similarly, we tend to call those who are originally termed “Mongoloid” as a race “Asian”, and thus manage to ignore two-thirds or more of the continent of Asia in the process (including all the Indian sub-continent, not to mention the various Turkish and Arabic peoples of Central and Southwest Asia). Mongoloid has ended up being applied to people who are afflicted with Down’s Syndrome, or other similar abnormalities, which explains why you aren’t going to see that term used to often to describe someone with an epicanthic fold. Of course, it would **really** be nice if we stopped thinking in terms of the human construct of “race” at all. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/27 "2009-07-30T14:40:23Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > This is what **Colibri** is saying with his description of two different groups of black people in Panama. Are they still culturally distinct today? Yes, they remain significantly distinct. On the western Caribbean coast and in the city of Colon many afroantilianos still speak Caribbean dialects of English as their first language. The afrocoloniales have some interesting festivals called Congo Dances commemorating the struggles of escaped slaves called cimmarones against the Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/28 "2009-07-30T14:42:17Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Not sure what you are laughing about. Oh come on. I have a feeling that you know exactly what I’m laughing at. I have never heard the term “Negroid” (in addition to the equally clumsy “Mongoloid,” or “Caucasoid”) used in context that wasn’t deliberatively offence or in a bizarre period book. Hearing it in a “style” handbook (which, itself, is prescribing “the correct” terms for people with Africa ancestry) is just priceless. > [@](#): > > “Negroid” is the original (and presumably still “correct”) term for the supposed “race” of humans for which we use the shorthand term “black” in this country (black = negro in Spanish, thus Negroid = those who are black). Similarly, we tend to call those who are originally termed “Mongoloid” as a race “Asian”, and thus manage to ignore two-thirds or more of the continent of Asia in the process (including all the Indian sub-continent, not to mention the various Turkish and Arabic peoples of Central and Southwest Asia). Mongoloid has ended up being applied to people who are afflicted with Down’s Syndrome, or other similar abnormalities, which explains why you aren’t going to see that term used to often to describe someone with an epicanthic fold. > > Of course, it would **really** be nice if we stopped thinking in terms of the human construct of “race” at all. :smack: I’m well aware of the historic usage and the silliness of such labels. This is what makes me laugh at the AP style handbook for using the term. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/29 "2009-07-30T15:16:24Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > People talk about the term “African-American” as if it resembled nothing else ever used. It’s actually modeled on earlier terms like “Irish-American” and “Italian-American” which were very common and well accepted in the U.S. The only odd thing is that about the time that “African-American” began to be commonly used, the other terms it was modeled on began to be less commonly used. True, but Africa isn’t a country like Ireland or Italy. And African-Americans aren’t descendants of immigrants from Africa, they’re descendants of slaves who arrived in the US during the colonial or early republican era, so they have a much longer history in the country than Irish-Americans or Italian-Americans. So the term is somewhat unique, and what I believe bothers most people who dislike the term is the fact that African-Americans don’t actually have any recent links to Africa. They’re a quintessentially American culture (that has been influenced by African cultures, it is true), not an imported one. This said, I personally have no problem with the term African-American. > [@Colibri](#): > > Yes, they remain significantly distinct. On the western Caribbean coast and in the city of Colon many afroantilianos still speak Caribbean dialects of English as their first language. The afrocoloniales have some interesting festivals called Congo Dances commemorating the struggles of escaped slaves called cimmarones against the Spanish. Thank you, this is interesting. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/30 "2009-07-30T15:50:58Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > True, but Africa isn’t a country like Ireland or Italy. And African-Americans aren’t descendants of immigrants from Africa, they’re descendants of slaves who arrived in the US during the colonial or early republican era, And due to this historical fact they cannot trace their ancestry to anything but the generalized region of “Africa.” So, it seems reasonable that they would call themselves "African-Americans,"no? Hell, if the history of the “New world” wasn’t so heavily racialized in the way that it was/is, African-Americans would probably celebrate their generalized European ancestry too. > [@](#): > > they’re descendants of slaves who arrived in the US during the colonial or early republican era, so they have a much longer history in the country than Irish-Americans or Italian-Americans. Yes, but African-Americans could not meld into the common social fabric and be accepted as fellow Americans in the way the Irish or Italian Americans could. The African-American ethnic group’s experience in the US was something truly unique. > [@](#): > > So the term is somewhat unique, and what I believe bothers most people who dislike the term is the fact that African-Americans don’t actually have any recent links to Africa. They’re a quintessentially American culture (that has been influenced by African cultures, it is true), not an imported one. I really think that this fact is unimportant to why “African-American” is used. It denotes an \*\*American \*\*ethnic group, African immigrants would call themselves by their country of origin (Nigerian-American) much like the Irish/Italian/etc-Americans did/do. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/31 "2009-07-31T07:59:54Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > So the term is somewhat unique Not really. You hear “Asian-American” (or just “Asian”) a lot and it doesn’t seem to bother anyone. And most of the people described by those terms don’t even have the excuse of not knowing which specific country their ancestors were from. It is interesting that in the US “Asian” almost always refers to people whose origins lie in the Far East whereas in Britain it seems to usually refer to people from the Indian subcontinent. ---
**Author:** ![Jamicat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/32 "2009-07-31T15:21:46Z")
I suppose then **African-African’s** would be PC for Africa? :rolleyes: …sounds like a job for The Onion ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/33 "2009-07-31T16:47:33Z")
> [@Jamicat](#): > > I suppose then **African-African’s** would be PC for Africa? :rolleyes: Well, you joke, but there is a certain amount of difficulty about the use of the term “African” in South Africa. “Black” is thought by some people to be a bit un-PC, so they substitute the term “African”. But this, in turn, is objected to by people who are not black but nonetheless consider themselves to be African. - htonl (apparently an “Anglo-African”) ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/34 "2009-07-31T17:19:47Z")
> [@Jamicat](#): > > I suppose then **African-African’s** would be PC for Africa? :rolleyes: > > …sounds like a job for The Onion Well people living on the continent of Africa would probably not use the term “Africa” to describe themselves but instead use their respective countries (Uganda, Ethiopia), they would probably also use a non-English language to do so. However, “Central African Republic” has the word “Africa” built into their name (much like USA does with “America”) and “South Africa” has that, and is even a former English colony. So… I have no clue what they would use. Upon reading **ctnguy** ’s post it would seem that South Africans use the descriptor “African” for themselves, this is much like how people from the USA use “American” to describe themselves. Interesting… ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/35 "2009-07-31T18:25:58Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Upon reading **ctnguy** ’s post it would seem that South Africans use the descriptor “African” for themselves, this is much like how people from the USA use “American” to describe themselves. Interesting… Well, no, in the context of nationality we would describe ourselves as “South African”. The question of the meaning of “African” is more of a political/cultural thing. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/36 "2009-07-31T18:40:41Z")
Sorry to double post, but I realise perhaps this needs more explanation: where a citizen of the USA would call himself an “American”, a citizen of South Africa would call himself a “South African”. The issue of “African” comes in when those South Africans who are not black object to the use of “African” to denote exclusively black people. The ususal argument is “My ancestors have lived in Africa for 250 years - how can I not be ‘African’?” Because issues of “settlerhood” and the rights to land are very sensitive in contemporary South Africa, the use of such language can be quite a big deal. See also, by way of example, ex-President Thabo Mbeki’s “[I am an African](http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/history/mbeki/1996/sp960508.html)” speech. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/37 "2009-07-31T19:24:47Z")
FWIW, the term “Black Irish” was used on Ireland’s most recent census in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/38 "2009-08-01T13:52:26Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > Sorry to double post, but I realise perhaps this needs more explanation: where a citizen of the USA would call himself an “American”, a citizen of South Africa would call himself a “South African”. > > The issue of “African” comes in when those South Africans who are not black object to the use of “African” to denote exclusively black people. The ususal argument is “My ancestors have lived in Africa for 250 years - how can I not be ‘African’?” Because issues of “settlerhood” and the rights to land are very sensitive in contemporary South Africa, the use of such language can be quite a big deal. > > See also, by way of example, ex-President Thabo Mbeki’s “[I am an African](http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/history/mbeki/1996/sp960508.html)” speech. Okay, that makes sense. You know, it would’ve seemed mighty arrogant if you guys called yourselves “the Africans” in the same way people from the US call themselves “the Americans;” as South Africa isn’t such a large part of the total continent. However, you guys do have the southern part nailed down well (minus that “hold out” Lesotho). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/39 "2009-08-01T14:09:51Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > No. Never in Canada have I heard the term “African-Canadian,” ever. > > We say “black.” Big deal. No one considers this a derogatory term any more than identifying someone as “white.” I’ve only heard ‘black’ in Canada. The linguistic hangup I hear more in Canada involves Native People/First Nations/Persons of Aboriginal Ancestry/Indians. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726/40 "2009-08-02T08:55:34Z")
In France you are French or you’re not; officially. If you’re French you’re French; if you’re from a European Union member state you’re European; if you’re not you’re “extracommunautaire”. There is no insertion of adjectives to create blended ethnicities such as Chinese-French, Algerian-French etc. the media may refer to someone’s origins “a man of North African origin” or “issu de l’immigration”. There is a raft of words used to describe where someone is from in day to day communication (“anglo-saxon”, “africain” “antillaise\*” etc.) but you are always one thing or the other. \*THere’s the added conundrum that there are two “black” communities in France. People from the French Caribbean who were born and brought up fully fledged French citizens using the franc and now the euro in their shops, following the same state education as someone in the French Alps or Côte d’Azur - these would argue about being classed as anything other than plain old “French”. People who are first or second generation immigrants from French-speaking Africa. Those who are more recently arrived (“recently” is of course is subjective & could indicate years) are not French, they are Malian, Senegalese, Beninese etc. and referred to as such. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/african-canadians/504726.md?page=3)