Hamish: I agree, except that complex society, like you said, doesn’t necessarily = technologically complex society. Sub-Saharan Africa would have certainly continued to develop. But because of its isolation ( not a problem for the Romans who sat on one end of a great axis of cultural exchange ), it was always going to be slower than Eurasia, because they didn’t have the same feedback system. They also had, as has been repeatedly pointed out, some resource and environmental constraints. So they would have been playing catch up until the modern age, with its rapid dissemination of information, inevitably overtook them at whatever stage those various soieties were in and transformed them. I don’t think ever had the chance to “win” the race to “world domination”. The Chinese did have a chance, and could of “won”. Sub-Saharan Africa ( the societies therein taken in toto ), I sincerely doubt.
If we’re talking a hypothetical world, where only sub-Saharan Africa existed in isolation, I dunno. That’s a tough one. I would contend that human curiosity would have indeed led to eventual technological sophistication, no matter what the obstacles. But the path, or at least the timing, would have been very different.
It’s so sad that people see Africa as a totally backward continent before the time of colonialism.
This perception is belied by the historical/archeological record, which shows unmistakeable evidence not only of iron, tin, gold and bronze metallurgy but also evidence of building technology, ceramics, math, medicine, and writing systems.
And Africa had extensive contact with middle-easterners, who, at times, were in many ways MORE advanced than your precious Chinese.
sjgouldrocks: Arghh! When did I ever say that I see Africa as totally backward before colonization? Try reading a bit more carefully. I believe I said quite the opposite in my first post to this thread.
Furthermore, I believe I mentioned the contact with the Middle-East more than once. Trans-Saharan trade? The influence of Islam? The Indian Ocean trade? The proximity of the Horn of Africa to southwest Arabia and the influence that surely had? Did I just hallucinate mentioning these things?
And a final furthermore, I am not a sinophile anymore than I am an anything-elsephile. Frankly, I am probably better informed historically about the Middle-East, than I am about China. I was simply using China as a contrasting example.
- Tamerlane ( flustered and annoyed
)
What is really sad is that you only see what you want to read. No one has claimed that Africa was “totally backward.” No one.
The societies in the region of what is now Ghana and Nigeria have been mentioned on several occasions.
However, the level of technological advancement in connection with the known supplies of raw materials available to those societies in the fifteenth century make it pretty clear that those societies would not have had the opportunity to rise to world dominance by the twentieth century–any more than dwellers on the Siberian steppes might have.
Your Arab/Chinese comment is a display of raw ignorance.
However, I repeat my earlier challenge: if you want to participate in the discussion, formulate a theory of how those kingdoms would have risen to a dominant position in the world. Explain what technology they might have built on. Describe the internal social forces that would have compelled them to build the armies (or the commerce) that would have allowed them to grow and prosper beyond their regional boundaries.
If you want to contribute, then contribute. This petulant carping from the sidelines (with your constant misreading of what has been posted and your apparent ignorance of any substantial facts), simply makes you look silly.
I would believe that the different peoples of continent of Africa might have eventually huddled together and become as financially homogenous as Europe is becoming. The slave trade would have been abolished there if only because it would lose its financially lucrative aspect. Slavery has caused almost permanent antagonism among the different peoples there.
I still think that for technological advancements, other than river/sea irrigation, Africa would still be more reliant on the advancements of Europe (I guess that there is an inverse relationship between the natural land serving the people adequately and technological advancements in that area). There would still be innovations coming from the region, just not the system of invention like America has (remember, Britain for a while kicked out several of their inventors for whatever reasons).
Africa probably would be on the forefront of conservation, partly to preserve the potential plants that can be used for medicine.
Anyway, if I had $500 billion for Africa I would do this:
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Build the infrastructure in each of the cities, especially plumbing and roads.
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Educate the entire people on the ravages of diseases and precautions one must take to prevent yourself and prevent spreading it to others.
[hijack]
Really? I would blow it on American, European, and Russian arms!
Woo-hoo! Nigeria’s Air Force needs some new MiG-29 Fulcrums![/hijack]