# After PayPal, how profitable have Elon Musk's businesses been? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269 "2016-08-19T02:09:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/1 "2016-08-19T02:09:40Z")
There’s no question that PayPal was a good idea and has a good profit margin. I’ve had issues finding net income data on Musk’s ventures and the data I’ve found, like the financials of Tesla Motors, don’t look good even though the company has been around for more than a decade. He’s gotten plenty rich though. So, how profitable have his ventures been after PayPal? If that hasn’t happened much, through what mechanisms does he keep getting richer? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/2 "2016-08-19T02:58:59Z")
Well, there’s SolarCity:[ > [@](#): > > SolarCity has been the leading provider of residential solar power in California since 2007, its first full year of operation, according to the database kept by the California Solar Initiative[7] and was the number one residential solar installer in the U.S. in 2013, according to GTM Research.[8] In 2013, Solar Power World magazine listed SolarCity as the No. 2 overall solar installation company in the U.S.[9] ]([SolarCity - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarCity)) Tesla Motors recently purchased SolarCity for $2.5-3 billion dollars. One of his other companies, SpaceX, was awarded a Commercial Orbital Transportation Services contract worth about $800 million so far. I’m not sure how much the contract for the Dragon capsule is worth. And their satellite construction and payload delivery services have provided SpaceX with something like $5 billion in revenue, IIRC. Oh, and Tesla Motors main income is from building and selling electric drivetrains (and other electric car technologies) to other vehicle manufacturers, not from making their own vehicles yet. The PowerWall alone had almost $1 billion in orders a month after it was introduced. Mr. Musk also has his fingers in a lot of other pies; the man is insanely busy. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/3 "2016-08-19T04:08:28Z")
[TheRichest.com site](http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celebrity-business/ceo/elon-musk-net-worth/) puts him at a net worth of $9.4 billion… ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/4 "2016-08-19T04:39:51Z")
When you say “profitable,” are you taking into account all the subsidies he’s received from the government, i.e., from us taxpayers? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/5 "2016-08-19T07:50:56Z")
I don’t think he’s worried about being profitable anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/6 "2016-08-19T10:56:14Z")
Solar City and Tesla are not profitable businesses, and both have taken substantial losses over their existence. Wall Street analysts in general have a mixed opinion of both these businesses, one side being excited about the potential (especially Tesla, less so on Solar City) and the other side nervously watching as cash continues to go out the door of both. SpaceX is not a publicly traded company, so it’s financial health isn’t a matter of public record. However, it seems like they are doing okay, because it’s launch manifest is filling up quickly, even though there are rumors that they are unprofitable. There’s a longstanding joke that with these businesses, Elon Musk seeks to make himself a millionaire. The problem is that he started them as a billionaire. Even still, it is hard not to root for the guy, what with two game-changing companies and one albatross that was just bought by Tesla. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/7 "2016-08-19T16:40:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Solar City and Tesla are not profitable businesses, and both have taken substantial losses over their existence. Wall Street analysts in general have a mixed opinion of both these businesses, one side being excited about the potential (especially Tesla, less so on Solar City) and the other side nervously watching as cash continues to go out the door of both. > > SpaceX is not a publicly traded company, so it’s financial health isn’t a matter of public record. However, it seems like they are doing okay, because it’s launch manifest is filling up quickly, even though there are rumors that they are unprofitable. > > There’s a longstanding joke that with these businesses, Elon Musk seeks to make himself a millionaire. The problem is that he started them as a billionaire. > > Even still, it is hard not to root for the guy, what with two game-changing companies and one albatross that was just bought by Tesla. The vibe I get is that he’s made his fortune, now he wants to spend it doing BIG stuff. Important stuff. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/8 "2016-08-19T16:44:45Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > When you say “profitable,” are you taking into account all the subsidies he’s received from the government, i.e., from us taxpayers? Is there ever a case where government contracts, tax breaks, subsidies, etc are _not_ included in profit? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/9 "2016-08-19T17:51:51Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > The vibe I get is that he’s made his fortune, now he wants to spend it doing BIG stuff. Important stuff. Oh yes, he’s clearly made the decision to invest his fortune in game-changing companies that are risky. Good for him. But I have to say, let’s not kid ourselves as to what constitutes “BIG” and “important” stuff. Elon is investing in luxury cars that will reduce environmental damage of personal transportation by some degree, and that’s exciting technology because it also goes fast and looks sexy. Bill Gates is investing in global health programs that will save the lives of tens of millions of children… and frankly most people don’t find that exciting. Which endeavor is truly the big, important one? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/10 "2016-08-19T18:04:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh yes, he’s clearly made the decision to invest his fortune in game-changing companies that are risky. Good for him. > > But I have to say, let’s not kid ourselves as to what constitutes “BIG” and “important” stuff. Elon is investing in luxury cars that will reduce environmental damage of personal transportation by some degree, and that’s exciting technology because it also goes fast and looks sexy. Bill Gates is investing in global health programs that will save the lives of tens of millions of children… and frankly most people don’t find that exciting. Which endeavor is truly the big, important one? Both. The types of technology that goes into the Tesla or solar technology and the changes that it helps drive are necessary to the long term survival of the planet as we know it. Its a longer term game, but just as essential in saving the lives of millions of children. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/11 "2016-08-19T18:18:19Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh yes, he’s clearly made the decision to invest his fortune in game-changing companies that are risky. Good for him. > > But I have to say, let’s not kid ourselves as to what constitutes “BIG” and “important” stuff. Elon is investing in luxury cars that will reduce environmental damage of personal transportation by some degree, and that’s exciting technology because it also goes fast and looks sexy. Bill Gates is investing in global health programs that will save the lives of tens of millions of children… and frankly most people don’t find that exciting. Which endeavor is truly the big, important one? why can’t we have both? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/12 "2016-08-19T18:20:03Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The types of technology that goes into the Tesla or solar technology and the changes that it helps drive are necessary to the long term survival of the planet as we know it. In my opinion, you are massively overestimating the impact of electric vehicles in terms of the long-term survival of the planet. Speaking as someone who will own an EV in the next few days. > [@jz78817](#): > > why can’t we have both? I’m not saying that Elon should stop what he’s doing. But let’s not kid ourselves: people think cheap rockets are big things, when I would reserve the words “big” and “important” for programs with a far, far broader impact. ---
**Author:** ![Debillw3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Debillw3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debillw3)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/13 "2016-08-23T21:42:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > In my opinion, you are massively overestimating the impact of electric vehicles in terms of the long-term survival of the planet. Speaking as someone who will own an EV in the next few days. The way I interpreted their post is that they’re not talking about the electric vehicles themselves, but the technology being created & implemented for that purpose. Like how [various NASA technology](http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/feature/nasa-celebrates-40-years-of-spinoffs), created for NASA purposes, affected outside technologies. I don’t know enough about Tesla’s work (or cars in general) to say what that technology might be in this case, or how it might be adapted in non-electric vehicle ways, but I think it’s short-sighted to narrow their electric vehicle work down to specifically electric vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-paypal-how-profitable-have-elon-musks-businesses-been/763269/14 "2016-08-23T21:59:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh yes, he’s clearly made the decision to invest his fortune in game-changing companies that are risky. Good for him. > > But I have to say, let’s not kid ourselves as to what constitutes “BIG” and “important” stuff. Elon is investing in luxury cars that will reduce environmental damage of personal transportation by some degree, and that’s exciting technology because it also goes fast and looks sexy. Bill Gates is investing in global health programs that will save the lives of tens of millions of children… and frankly most people don’t find that exciting. Which endeavor is truly the big, important one? Tesla’s business model was to start with expensive luxury sports cars which were seen as status symbols to get their company and technology advanced enough that they could break into the mid-size car market. They did not have the technology or capital to go from a new company to a company that made mainstream cars that use a new form of fuel in one step. It was a 3 step process. Build high end sports cars, build mid range sports cars, build affordable family sedans. They have done that, their new car model is $35,000 ($27,500 after federal tax credit, but not everyone will get the tax credit). After factoring in the fact that you may save about $1,500 a year in gas (possibly a bit less now that gas is $2/gallon), that means after 10 years the total cost of the new tesla model is closer to $12,500 (compared to an internal combustion engine car, $7500 in federal tax rebates plus $15,000 in fuel savings), $12,500 is about what a cheap economy car like the Chevy Spark or Nissan Versa costs. However if you take away the $7,500 rebate and assume gas savings are only $1,000 a year, that means in 10 years it is the equivalent of buying a $25,000 car. Which is about what a Honda Accord costs new. Still, that is an affordable family sedan and a lot of people would view the Tesla as a superior car than a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. Musk is creating new investment and technology in fields the world desperately needs. Renewable energy, space travel, AI, internet commerce, etc. The internet has also played a big role in helping economic growth in Africa. Concepts Musk has worked on like Zip2 (putting the yellow pages online) or paypal (money transfer online) has helped lift a of people’s standard of living, including the globally poor.