# After the zombie apocalypse, would you accept refuge with a settlement of competent racists? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221 "2015-03-17T18:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/21 "2015-03-17T20:06:48Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > within? No chance for a negotiated arrangement, a changing of minds? > I’ll bow out of any further discussion, because even in a world undergoing a zombie apocalypse, your scenario is unrealistic. I disagree. I think this is perfectly likely. There are plenty of people in the world who would help X race but not want them to marry their daughters. Hell, my parents were amongst that group. They had Muslim friends, hung out with Muslims, and my dad’s best friend is a Muslim man. But if I had ever tried to marry a Muslim? It would have been “our kind and theirs don’t mix”. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/22 "2015-03-17T20:09:11Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > I’d stay. Eliminating racism is nice, but there’s no way it’s a more important concern than starving to death, getting shot or getting devoured by zombies. My survival is more important than my political goals or social values. Yeah but you’d also be turning out the friends you’ve survived with up to this point. I think I’d rather be in danger with friends I trust, than safe is a creepy refuge. If this is a Walking Dead scenario, surviving wouldn’t really be that hard. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/23 "2015-03-17T20:16:08Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Yeah but you’d also be turning out the friends you’ve survived with up to this point. I think I’d rather be in danger with friends I trust, than safe is a creepy refuge. If this is a Walking Dead scenario, surviving wouldn’t really be that hard. Depends on how you look at it. Surviving in the Walking Dead verse is a mixture of competence and cameraderie, but most of all luck, for which one can plan neither for nor against. Tyreese was pretty competent against zombies, for instance; he died because it is impossible to stay focused at every moment (just as it’s impossible to sprint everywhere) and he ran out of juice at the wrong moment. They lost Herschel’s farm out of bad luck more than anything else. Et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/24 "2015-03-17T20:20:47Z")
I would rather suffer from injustice than benefit from it. I’ll head out into the wild with the group of people of another race (if they’ll have me) in order to improve their/my chances of survival and also to improve the moral character of human civilization. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/25 "2015-03-17T20:24:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Depends on how you look at it. Surviving in the Walking Dead verse is a mixture of competence and cameraderie, but most of all luck, for which one can plan neither for nor against. Tyreese was pretty competent against zombies, for instance; he died because it is impossible to stay focused at every moment (just as it’s impossible to sprint everywhere) and he ran out of juice at the wrong moment. They lost Herschel’s farm out of bad luck more than anything else. Et cetera. Yeah, they have supernaturally bad luck on WD. If Tyreese were on my team, he wouldn’t be dead. He’d be wearing bite-proof protective gear. Everyone would move in teams with people looking in all directions, all the time. None of this letting things sneak up on you. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/26 "2015-03-17T20:29:00Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Yeah, they have supernaturally bad luck on WD. If Tyreese were on my team, he wouldn’t be dead. He’d be wearing bite-proof protective gear. Everyone would move in teams with people looking in all directions, all the time. None of this letting things sneak up on you. God hates Team Grimes. There’s no other explanation. And you can’t compensate for THAT. That said, they don’t always have the numbers to support that. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/27 "2015-03-17T20:30:15Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I would rather suffer from injustice than benefit from it. > > I’ll head out into the wild with the group of people of another race (if they’ll have me) in order to improve their/my chances of survival and also to improve the moral character of human civilization. By increasing your odds of being eaten? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/28 "2015-03-17T20:57:01Z")
I’d leave. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/29 "2015-03-17T21:13:18Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Who says I’m not? > > Geeze, you’re the one who postulated the zombie fuckin apocalypse! Why can’t I be Michael Westen? > > Seriously, one way or the other I’m devoting my remaining days ending those fuckers who decide to turn a “natural” disaster into a whites only party. They gotta come out of their compound sometime, and I’m taking them out. Or letting the zombies in. (Underline added) Tsk, tsk. How racist of you to assume that racist must be white. Since you’re out-manned, and out-gunned, I assume your remaining days will be short in number if you attempt to take them out. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/30 "2015-03-17T21:24:51Z")
What do you call a guy who gave up his life and the lives of his family for the sake of a societal value that was a not universally accepted ideal in a society that no longer exists? One more corpse. Skald made it clear in this hypothetical that you are screwed without these people. What do you think “no other option” means? I guess if you have no family and you are willing to give up your life for a philosophical principle, no foul since nobody dies but you. Sacrificing the lives of your SO and children so you don’t feel bad about yourself is contemptible. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/31 "2015-03-17T21:25:10Z")
With a wife and three daughters, I’m staying. Anything is possible, of course, but I would be surprised that a group who had risked their own lives to save my friends and family, and then shared their medical supplies, and food, would later ask people to leave because of the color of their skin. I doubt Black Panthers or Nazis would take the time to rescue a mixed race group. I would make the case that my friends would be a useful addition to this new group and that they should be given a chance to prove themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/32 "2015-03-17T22:58:03Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Tsk, tsk. How racist of you to assume that racist must be white. Yes, I did. I realized that after I submitted the post that the racial makeup was left unspecified. While it would usually be the default case of whites being the bigger bigots, I could imagine them not letting me join their Black Panther party. > [@](#): > > Since you’re out-manned, and out-gunned, I assume your remaining days will be short in number if you attempt to take them out. Maybe, but what else have I got to do with my time? > [@Scumpup](#): > > What do you call a guy who gave up his life and the lives of his family for the sake of a societal value that was a not universally accepted ideal in a society that no longer exists? One more corpse. > Skald made it clear in this hypothetical that you are screwed without these people. What do you think “no other option” means? I guess if you have no family and you are willing to give up your life for a philosophical principle, no foul since nobody dies but you. Sacrificing the lives of your SO and children so you don’t feel bad about yourself is contemptible. Well, I hope you enjoy selling out your values for survival. Maybe if they ask you to take part in their little cannibalistic bonding ritual, you won’t have a problem either? As someone once said, there are always possibilities. I don’t believe in the no-win scenario. 🙂 Even if I fail, I’d rather die like a man than live pretending the racists were just OK people. I couldn’t feel right leaving others to die. What are we saving our selves for? The world’s gone to shit, and won’t get better any time soon. And it’s probably the “me first” attitude you show that lead to this enclave full of racists. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/33 "2015-03-17T23:22:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > \ or a Star Wars fan without being a virgin.\ …yeahhhh, we’re gonna need a cite for that one anywho, as much as I’d like to say I’m out, I’m probably going to stay. While I, individually, could take my chances with zed, my family can’t. Health issues are going to require more support than I, awesome as I am, can provide. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/34 "2015-03-17T23:53:05Z")
The problem with the racist survivalists is that the racism is just a symptom of a generalized knuckleheadedness. The human species is on the edge, and these idiots are busy helping push us closer to the cliff. If they’re that insistent on racial purity, what else are they insistent about? Religion? The infallibility of the leader? That certain medical treatments are tools of the devil? Of course, once the zombie apocalypse hits, everyone goes a little crazy. If it wasn’t racism it would be something else. Maybe after a few years of safety they’ll calm down. Or get worse. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/35 "2015-03-18T00:08:03Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yes, I did. I realized that after I submitted the post that the racial makeup was left unspecified. While it would usually be the default case of whites being the bigger bigots, I could imagine them not letting me join their Black Panther party. > > Maybe, but what else have I got to do with my time? > > Well, I hope you enjoy selling out your values for survival. Maybe if they ask you to take part in their little cannibalistic bonding ritual, you won’t have a problem either? > > As someone once said, there are always possibilities. I don’t believe in the no-win scenario. 🙂 > > Even if I fail, I’d rather die like a man than live pretending the racists were just OK people. I couldn’t feel right leaving others to die. What are we saving our selves for? The world’s gone to shit, and won’t get better any time soon. And it’s probably the “me first” attitude you show that lead to this enclave full of racists. If you want to kill people who don’t agree with your values, you are a worse person than the racists. You are, in fact, a substantially worse person if that is what you truly believe. Also, selling out values to survive is pretty much what happens in bad situations. If you do what you have to survive, you can still hope to positively affect society after the crisis abates. If you refuse to compromise for values and die, you can watch from beyond the grave as the world is repopulated by racists. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/36 "2015-03-18T00:47:50Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I’m out. I used to hang out with some people who were (among other things) unashamedly racist, and survival or not, that shit gets old real fast. I would like to think I would do this but push comes to shove ------------ > [@Velocity](#): > > I’d join, but would consider leaving later on if things improved to make a good exit feasible. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/37 "2015-03-18T00:59:13Z")
I’d have no problem staying with racists in principle in a zombie apocalypse. I accept that a lot of our morals are dependent on modern society. In an apocalypse situation of any kind, a lot of us will revert to our more base natures, which would include tribalism. But in the specific situation, where I’m already with a group and many of our members are being told they have to leave, I’d stay with the group that I was already with, assuming I trusted that group. So back out we go, but at least we’re in it together. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/38 "2015-03-18T01:01:30Z")
Hey racists, bite me! Me and my buds are going out to start Fort Awesome. It’s gonna be way better than your shithole refuge. And guess what? We don’t believe in mixing with racists. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/39 "2015-03-18T02:10:01Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Even if I fail, I’d rather die like a man than live pretending the racists were just OK people. I couldn’t feel right leaving others to die. What are we saving our selves for? The world’s gone to shit, and won’t get better any time soon. And it’s probably the “me first” attitude you show that lead to this enclave full of racists. You are saving yourselves to, one hopes, rebuild a society that has the values you claim to hold so dear. It’s your “it has to be my way or we all just die” attitude that will lead to the extinction of your bloodline and your beliefs. You likely won’t even get to take long term satisfaction in having done the right thing. You’ll just be another rotting corpse. In real life rotting corpses all look the same, no matter what beliefs they professed while living. If you were drowning, and a racist extended his hand to pull you from the water, would you choose to drown? If your house was on fire, would you prefer your family burn rather than they be saved by a racist fireman? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221/40 "2015-03-18T02:29:26Z")
I think a better way of approaching the issue is to distinguish between “higher” morals that derive from sophisticated modern civilization and the more basic morals that human societies evolved long before civilization began. These are often in conflict, because some higher morals are luxuries that are actually disadvantages when civilization breaks down. In order to return to higher morals like racial equality, you need to reestablish civilization first. In the meantime, you’ll just have to accept that tribalism is going to be a thing or probably die. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/after-the-zombie-apocalypse-would-you-accept-refuge-with-a-settlement-of-competent-racists/715221.md?page=3)