# Again, a plea to those convinced they will hate ROTS (unboxed spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307 "2005-04-20T20:35:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/41 "2005-04-20T23:59:32Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > And one word, one little technicality, destroyed all that for you? > > Wow…and you all think _I_ have too much invested in this. > > That’s really sad. _ **Ouch** _. It was bad enough when I had the homos calling me a loser; now I’ve got the nerds too? Truly I am a Man Without a Country. So I’m only allowed to pick one word? Okay, how about “YOU.” As in: > [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > Well clearly YOU are the one who is wrong, based on evidence from the movies. As in, **Ogre** comes in and gives a perfect summation of exactly why the _Star Wars_ movies were so cool and hit such a nerve with people of our generation, because they tap into mythology and work as a new mythology. And then you respond with a religous debate. About a work of fiction. And not just a religious debate, but a snotty religious debate. Do the words “Comic Book Guy” mean nothing to you? How about “ysalamiri?” Unexplained magic and ancient civilizations and a Hero Cycle and laser-gun battles between Good and Evil, you’ve got a Grand Space Opera and an attempt to create a new mythology. Trade regulations and midochlorians and senate hearings and attempts to apply real science to a mythical universe, you got dick. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/42 "2005-04-21T00:02:21Z")
> [@brownie55](#): > > Wow, and all of that. **Soapbox Monkey** , dude, do you have any idea how much I wanted these movies to be as magical as they were when I first saw Star Wars (I’ll pray you forgive me for not calling it _A New Hope_). > > I stood in line with three kids, 7, 5, and 3, to see Return of the Jedi the weekend it was released, and we all loved it. Oddly, I had great conversations with my children about everything from symbolism to sacrifice because of that movie. Hell, my daughters are 30, 28, and 26 now, and we still talk about it. Yeah, I am a fan. > > And maybe, because of all the things that **Ogre** and **Miller** have articulated so well, there is a portion of the fan base that feels like we are being cheated by the prequells. Why? Because the entire spirit has been changed from a universal Force, to fake biological force. Is it the end of the world? No, but when you have greatness, and **Soapbox Monkey** , I mean greatness, in your hands, you should not piss it away like this. The first two prequells cheapened our memories, and this one is likely to continue that. That is why we can’t get all positive. And in regards to the your commandment in the OP **don’t see the fucking movie,** I’ll spend my 9 bucks to see it, and bitch all I want. Don’t you dare tell me what to do or what not to do. If you can’t have your icons pissed on, well, you don’t understand free speach. Again, I don’t see how the addition of the M word, which was only uttered 3 or 4 times in Episode 1, not at all in Episode 2, and most likely won’t be in Episode 3, completely UNDOES all of that symbolism and magic from the Old Trilogy. They are still consistent. Yoda’s teachings are still consistent, although by the Old Trilogy Yoda had reflected and learned a lot from the Jedis’ mistakes before the downfall of the Republic. Qui Gon had the right idea all along, and the Jedi council had become lazy and bureaucratic. Maybe you think midichlorians make Star Wars too much like Star Trek. I personally see nothing wrong with it. The Force is still CLEARLY spiritual. There would not be a way to become one with the Force upon your death if it was just some mitochondria wannabe. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/43 "2005-04-21T00:10:00Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Trade regulations and midochlorians and senate hearings and attempts to apply real science to a mythical universe, you got dick. I can accept why you wouldn’t like the political aspect of it, and I won’t challenge that. I, on the other hand, really like the political aspect. It would be kind of hard for the Republic to fall and for Palpatine to work his master plan if their weren’t politics. So essentially what I’m getting is that people just aren’t happy with the angle taken by the new movies. Which makes sense. But it’s been like that for the last two movies. That’s the theme of the prequels. It’s not going to suddenly change for Episode 3. Knowing that, Lucas is not going to realize the error of his ways if people who are so displeased don’t try to send an actual message. So ultimately the only people who end up unhappy is are those of you who were uphappy when you saw Episodes 1 and 2. I will be very happy, however, at least until I see all the threads here on May 20th. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/44 "2005-04-21T00:11:14Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > “ysalamiri?” Umm…I’m gonna guess Klingon simply because I don’t know the names of any other languages in Star Trek. Anyway, translation? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/45 "2005-04-21T00:27:49Z")
Whoa…and I thought I was a _Star Wars_ nerd. Having read the novelization, I think this is gonna be the BEST one. I was crying when I finished it. And even if it does suck, you gotta admit, Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiamid kick serious ass. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/46 "2005-04-21T00:32:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Whoa…and I thought I was a _Star Wars_ nerd. > > Having read the novelization, I think this is gonna be the BEST one. I was crying when I finished it. > > And even if it does suck, you gotta admit, Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiamid kick serious ass. I agree. Ian never seems to get enough credit. He and Ewan are going to own this movie. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/47 "2005-04-21T00:33:12Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > Umm…I’m gonna guess Klingon simply because I don’t know the names of any other languages in Star Trek. > > Anyway, translation? Pfft! And you call yourself a _Star Wars_ fan? A ysalimiri is a like a furry snake with legs, that pushes away the Force, forming a little bubble. (Although if you guys are using this as proof of Lucas sucking, you’re out of luck-THAT was from Timothy Zahn). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/48 "2005-04-21T00:34:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And even if it does suck, you gotta admit, Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiamid kick serious ass. I gotta give you that much, at least for Ewan. I’ve been a fan of his since _Shallow Grave_, and it kills me that such a great performance is being wasted in such inferior movies. ---
**Author:** ![Zhen\_ka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecccb3/32.png) [@Zhen\_ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zhen_ka)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/49 "2005-04-21T00:39:04Z")
But, there’s a wookie army in it, right? I’d see it for that alone. And, Guin, people don’t think that you are stupid because you like the prequels, but because you, well, are STUPID. Can’t decide if **Anaamika** is worse for bitching about spoilers when it clearly states that there are unboxed spoilers. Both of you stupid twats should just head back to MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/50 "2005-04-21T00:42:36Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > Umm…I’m gonna guess Klingon simply because I don’t know the names of any other languages in Star Trek. > > Anyway, translation? I’m filled with shame as I type this, but: [Ysalamiri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ysalamiri) are creatures from the novel _Heir to the Empire_. They have the ability to create a “Force bubble” around themselves, in which Force powers don’t work. This is explained in the book as being a result of natural selection, because their natural predators were Force-sensitive animals. That was the first sign that trouble was brewing in the Star Wars universe, but it was at least limited to novels that only obsessive geeks like myself would read. With the midochlorian nonsense, it just became official that that was the direction the series was going from now on. Now, on some level I can appreciate the bind the author was in: he wanted to tell this fantastic story (in the sense of “fantasy,” not in the sense of “any good”), and needed a way to explain why a big bad-ass Force-sensitive villain didn’t just kill our main villain outright and be done with it. But instead of inventing a story-based motivation for it, and instead of just ignoring it in the tradition of Grand Stories, he went to great pains to explain exactly _why_ it wasn’t a plot-hole, attempting to use science and natural selection. _Star Wars_ shouldn’t care about the evolution of aliens; they should just be there to look cool. It shouldn’t care about how the Force works. Or how a creature that lives inside a deserted asteroid could survive off nothing more than passing spaceships. Or how a creature that lives in the desert could survive off nothing more than bounty hunters and henchmen that happen to fall into it. Or how any life-support system could keep a person alive inside a block of metal. Nerds can debate that all we want, but it’s not relevant to the story, so it shouldn’t be included in the story. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/51 "2005-04-21T00:45:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Pfft! And you call yourself a _Star Wars_ fan? > > A ysalimiri is a like a furry snake with legs, that pushes away the Force, forming a little bubble. (Although if you guys are using this as proof of Lucas sucking, you’re out of luck-THAT was from Timothy Zahn). Aah, so that was from Zahn, eh? I always heard that guy was good. It’s funny that so many people who disapprove of the prequels love some of the EU, even though the EU are even worse when it comes to “science-ifying” the Star Wars universe than Lucas has been. Personally, I just stay clear of the whole EU thing. And yes Guinastasia, and do call myself a Star Wars fan. It begins with Episode 1 and ends with Episode 6. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/52 "2005-04-21T00:52:51Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Nerds can debate that all we want, but it’s not relevant to the story, so it shouldn’t be included in the story. I agree whole heartedly. That’s why I stay clear of the EU. And it’s understandable that the midichlorians would upset you and many others. But to me there is still enough proof in Star Wars that the Force is a spiritual entity, regardless of the presence of midichlorians. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/53 "2005-04-21T00:53:11Z")
After reading the script for episode 3, my problem with it (other than the lame dialog) is that Anikan turns on a dime. He goes from “what have I done?” to pledging his allegiance to Palpatine with zero in between. As for the first 2: 1) they felt like startrek 2)the acting sucked 3) the dialog sucked. I will see the new one for the fight scenes. Oh and the immaculate conception angle is completely lame. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/54 "2005-04-21T00:56:09Z")
Hey, the Zahn book were pretty damn good! The first trilogy especially (The Thrawn Trilogy). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/55 "2005-04-21T00:59:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I gotta give you that much, at least for Ewan. I’ve been a fan of his since _Shallow Grave_, and it kills me that such a great performance is being wasted in such inferior movies. Eh, from what I understand, he’s thrilled (contrary to rumors), because his uncle was in the originals, and he had a lot of fun and he got to keep his lightsaber. Why, **Zhen’ka** , I never knew you cared! _smooch_ Love you too, snookums. **Soapbox Monkey** , maybe you should have put SW Episode III instead. Lastly-Zahn is good, but Aaron Allston rules. “Yub yub, commander!” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/56 "2005-04-21T05:34:33Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#): > > Either way, he needed Anakin to be the result of an immaculate conception, and he felt he needed at least some way of explaining how that could have been a possibility. This is a pet peeve of mine- the doctorine of the immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception without sin- not the conception of Jesus without benefit of sexin’. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/57 "2005-04-21T06:28:35Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > This is a pet peeve of mine- the doctorine of the immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception without sin- not the conception of Jesus without benefit of sexin’. Mary’s conception without sin? I’m sorry, I’m not too clear on Catholic doctrine. Does this mean Mary had yet to sin at all in her life when she conceived Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/58 "2005-04-21T08:30:37Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > This is a pet peeve of mine- the doctorine of the immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception without sin- not the conception of Jesus without benefit of sexin’. I was always under the impression it was Marys’ conception without “Original Sin” rather than just any old sin. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/59 "2005-04-21T11:33:28Z")
Personally, I don’t give a shit _what_ Lucas does with his latest series of movies. I haven’t given him a penny for the first two and I don’t plan on giving him anything for the last one. I saw 1 and 2 at a friend’s house and got a free copy of the Episode 3 graphic novel. They were not good. As for his changes in the original trilogy? Fine, he can do what he wants. I just wish I could get copies of each of the movies as they were first released. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307/60 "2005-04-21T11:44:34Z")
I paid good money to see **Menace** , I watched **Clones** on a fuzzy videotape which had been copied off a Thai bootleg, and I have no intention of seeing the latest one. Diminishing returns, for me if not for Lucas. He started off wanting to remake **Flash Gordon** , which was A Good Thing, and ended up remaking **Dune** , which was A Very Bad Thing. I’ve just been watching the original trilogy with my three year old son, who _loves_ them - kinda neat, since I first saw \*\*Star Wars \*\* at the age of 9, in 1977 - the originals are still great stories; the later ones are just expensive toy commercials. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-a-plea-to-those-convinced-they-will-hate-rots-unboxed-spoilers/300307.md?page=4)