# Again the Bush admin hits the working man. Comp time vs overtime. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891 "2003-06-23T22:57:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Padmaraga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@Padmaraga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padmaraga)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/21 "2003-06-24T00:26:55Z")
The information I read on it said it was the employee’s choice to take the time or the money , not the employers’, but it was the employer’s option whether to offer the option at all. In other words, if my employer decides to offer the option of comp time, but I work the extra time, I’m supposed to get to choose whether I want the comp time or the overtime pay; my boss can’t decide that for me. At least, like I said, that’s what the version of it that I was given to read by our HR advisor said. I do like the idea, especially if the info above is correct. Currently, my employer does let me take a form of comp time (even though it’s illegal; and no, I’m not saying who I work for!!): if I need to take time off after I’ve exceeded my sick time & vacation time, I can take it with pay and then make up the time at my discretion, which I usually do by putting in a few extra hours a day or coming in on a Saturday until I’ve made up the time. If the bill passes, I’ll no longer have to worry about this illegal privelege being taken away from me. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/22 "2003-06-24T00:45:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*Mtgman…comp time is just time off. No money involved. \*\* Whoa! Where is this definition of comp time? I didn’t see it in the article. Could you give me a hint? I’ve had “comp time” before, and it was paid time off. Perhaps my boss wasn’t as sharp with his terminology as he should have been and my understanding of comp time is wrong. Got a quote or a link? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/23 "2003-06-24T00:50:14Z")
I got curious and did some digging for myself. Found [this summary of the bill](http://edworkforce.house.gov/issues/108th/workforce/familytime/billsummary.htm) which seems far less dire than the article is painting it. Still, guess it could be the legaleeze that taketh away. > [@](#): > > The Family Time Flexibility Act (H.R. 1119) give employers the option of offering employees the choice of **paid time off** in lieu of cash wages for overtime hours worked if the employee prefers to take compensatory time instead of overtime pay. An employee is always entitled to opt for the overtime cash wages Emphasis mine. If this summary is accurate then I don’t really see the problem. Not on first glance at least. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/24 "2003-06-24T00:53:02Z")
Mtgman: You might be confusing exempt and non-exempt employment. If you’re exempt (salaried), and you get “comp time” you still get paid for the time off. If you’re non-exempt (hourly), then this bill will allow you to have time off (unpaid) instead of overtime. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/25 "2003-06-24T00:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*So now you are editing the law? > > And you really think the pubbies will remove that line? That line is the whole law. > > Wanna buy a bridge? \*\* The article says it’s at the **employee’s** discretion: > [@](#): > > The choice of being paid in time or money would be at the employee’s discretion ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/26 "2003-06-24T00:56:49Z")
I don’t understand why it’s illegal/why you can’t go to the boss and say you want to have the Friday off to have a long weekend, then do these hours on a later date (or earlier). I have never worked in a country where that was not allowed. However, it’s been my impression that it’s the employer who can offer the employee to work overtime, and give the employee time off at a later day. The employee can only agree or deny. (I’ve been reading about this in the WP lately.) So, instead of paying overtime, the employer can ask around untill he finds somebody who is happy with time off. The company will thereby save money, since most production is usually peak-based. And as far as I understood, that’s why the unions have been opposed to the law in its current form. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/27 "2003-06-24T00:59:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*The article says it’s at the **employee’s** discretion: \*\* I agree. What’s at question was when the worker would get said time or money. That’s at the employers discretion. ---
**Author:** ![DebiJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f08c70/32.png) [@DebiJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DebiJ)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/28 "2003-06-24T01:03:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \*\*\*The bill requires employers to pay for unused comp time within 30 days of the end of the calendar year, but that would theoretically allow employers to wait up to 13 months before paying someone the overtime he or she worked for – without having to compensate him until the end of the year – giving the company, in effect, an interest free loan. \*\* I’m leery of the last line on that. Yes, it might be great to take a choice, but having worked for some real s\*itty companies, I can see them waiting until the end of that 13th month for my comp time or overtime pay. It would work just fine if you have a company that is decent and willing to work with you. However, almost all the companies that do that are already doing that in some way or other to help you now. If they have to pay or give you comp time within 30 days of the end of that calendar year, I can just see that ole WalMart HR guy go… hmmmm with a light flashing on over his head. I can get people to work extra hours and I won’t have to pay them overtime or give them off time until I want to as long as it’s within 30 days of the calendar year. By that time, maybe they will have quit. Debij ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/29 "2003-06-24T01:07:33Z")
So the federal government’s legislature is considering permitting the business community to use a practice that the federal government’s been using for years for federal workers? Big deal. Wait, I forgot. The folks who are up in arms about this didn’t give a whit about all those federal employees. I guess that’s the big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/30 "2003-06-24T02:00:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*If you’re non-exempt (hourly), then this bill will allow you to have time off (unpaid) instead of overtime. \*\* Actually, I think you are misunderstanding the bill. Read **Mtgman’s** cite. Comp time is defined as “paid time off”, and in fact, you would get time-and-a-half worth of comp time for every hour of overtime you work. No mention is made of exempt or non-exempt. Sounds pretty ideal to me, given the option of taking the comp time in a timely manner. So to speak. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/31 "2003-06-24T02:41:07Z")
Since you get paid time and a half for overtime, wouldn’t it only be fair if you got an hour and a half of comp time for every overtime hour worked? Not that it matters to me–we were tickled pink to finally get our new rules limiting us to 30 hours _in a row_. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/32 "2003-06-24T02:54:09Z")
Where I work we already have this choice. Comp time is just added to our accumualted **paid** vacation time. We don’t always have a choice about how we will be compensated, overtime wage vs comp time, but we are given the choice of refusing the OT if we don’t want whichever is being offered. As a general rule of thumb, people arountcheer prefer the additional accumulated vacation time, comp time. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/33 "2003-06-24T03:01:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*So the federal government’s legislature is considering permitting the business community to use a practice that the federal government’s been using for years for federal workers? Big deal. Wait, I forgot. The folks who are up in arms about this didn’t give a whit about all those federal employees. I guess that’s the big deal. \*\* please enlighten me. this affects the argument how? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/34 "2003-06-24T03:13:07Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by John Mace The article says it’s at the employee’s discretion: > > I agree. > > What’s at question was when the worker would get said time or money. That’s at the employers discretion. I have a good idea… If your employer has a habit of not giving you your comp time in a timely fashion… DON’T TAKE THE OPTION. Then you’re no worse off than if the law hadn’t been passed in the first place. Do you really need the government holding your hand over EVERY decision you make? How about a law making it illegal for managers to be cranky before their morning cup of coffee, or for employers to punish you by not giving you a computer upgrade that everyone else gets? At what point will you be happy with your country’s labor laws? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/35 "2003-06-24T03:14:33Z")
I love a good Bush-bashing as much as anyone, but this proposal seems fine to me. The 13 month thing is a little troubling, but as long as the employee can choose overtime pay instead, or sign an agreement with his employer to receive his comp time within 60 days or so, then I can’t complain. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/36 "2003-06-24T03:17:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > [The article says it’s at the **employee’s** discretion: Of course, this sort of thing has to be codified very carefully. After all, it may be at the employee’s discretion but then the manager might choose to note that it is at his/her discretion that the employee remains employed at the company. This is the reason that I think labor unions oppose this sort of thing. It seems like it could easily become a back-door way for employers not to pay time-and-a-half for overtime. I think we need an expert on labor law to really wade through this and figure out how it will work in the real world. But, color me “leery”. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/37 "2003-06-24T03:28:24Z")
Where I work, it’s **comp time or the highway**. No choice, at least at the present time. 😉 Never a problem with taking it off, though. We just don’t believe in OT. And, yes, it’s given at 1.5 per hour. If I work 2 hours, I get 3 hours CT. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/38 "2003-06-24T03:29:02Z")
> [@](#): > > This is the reason that I think labor unions oppose this sort of thing. It seems like it could easily become a back-door way for employers not to pay time-and-a-half for overtime. Of course it is. The employer could wait till slack time to say now is a a good time. Even though it’s not a good time for you. It would be his choice. Not yours. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/39 "2003-06-24T03:57:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Demise \* > \*\*Actually, I think you are misunderstanding the bill. Read **Mtgman’s** cite. Comp time is defined as “paid time off”, and in fact, you would get time-and-a-half worth of comp time for every hour of overtime you work. No mention is made of exempt or non-exempt. > > Sounds pretty ideal to me, given the option of taking the comp time in a timely manner. So to speak. \*\* My screw-up. Of course you’d get paid time off if they weren’t paying you for the OT. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891/40 "2003-06-24T05:28:46Z")
Well, gee, netscape; it affects the argument by showing that one can’t say the feds consider it unfair since they’ve been using this system for years already. And it also shows that those who are up in arms really don’t consider it unfair either–they essentially consider it unfair \*when it applies to them[i/], to heck with “the other guy” (the federal employee). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/again-the-bush-admin-hits-the-working-man-comp-time-vs-overtime/183891.md?page=3)