# Against Gay Marriage = Against Homosexuality? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2005, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776 "2005-07-16T07:03:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/21 "2005-07-16T15:54:32Z")
I grew up in a very physically, mentally, and sexually abusive mother/father home. My sister and her first partner raised four children in a very loving lesbian home. After her partner died when the children were teenagers, my sister remained a single parent to the four children. She is currently raising two children with her second partner. I wish I’d been raised in my sister’s family. ---
**Author:** ![DeathOnTwoLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f08c70/32.png) [@DeathOnTwoLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeathOnTwoLegs)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/22 "2005-07-16T16:34:00Z")
Studies have proven that when a human being makes a statement, he will continue to reaffirm that statement even if it becomes obvious or he comes to personally believe that he is wrong. I am going to say, and not just to go against this study, that you have all changed my mind. If anyone, by all means, wishes to continue to discuss this interesting subject, that would be excellent. However, noone should feel the need to convince me any further. My opinion was based strongly on my personal observations of friends and relatives and their experiences with the people close to them, as well as how my relationship with my parents has affected me. However, I had failed to bring into consideration the broader possibilities of family relationships, and to realize that the typical parental bonds (such as the typical “father and son” bond) were not the only ways in which a child could recieve strong guidance, friendship, companionship, etc. with someone close to them. Also, it is beyond obvious to me now that just because a boy has two mothers or a girl has two fathers does not mean that they will not meet people of the same sex who have a profound effect on them. Thank you all. En Taro Adun, (why did I just type that?) Joey ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/23 "2005-07-16T17:26:29Z")
> [@DeathOnTwoLegs](#): > > Studies have proven that when a human being makes a statement, he will continue to reaffirm that statement even if it becomes obvious or he comes to personally believe that he is wrong. I am going to say, and not just to go against this study, that you have all changed my mind. Welcome, indeed! It’s great to see folks on the boards, and especially in this forum, who listen to what other folks say, and who evaluate it fairly. Nifty! > [@](#): > > En Taro Adun, > (why did I just type that?) > Joey Dabu, Daniel ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/24 "2005-07-16T17:33:20Z")
\*\*magellan01[/B > [@](#): > > Now, if you could choose her sexual orientation for her, which would you choose? Hey, dude. Well, I do have that daughter. And she was a late bloomer, not dating until her late teens. Up until then I wondered if maybe she wasn’t interested in boys and perhaps she might be gay. Didn’t matter. And even now I don’t particularly like the idea of some guy puttin’ it to her so to speak. But if I could choose, I wouldn’t. It’s her decision. But thats in your scenario where there is no discrimination. In the real world I’d rather she not have to live through the shit that gay people have to endure. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/25 "2005-07-16T17:40:04Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > But if I could choose, I wouldn’t. It’s her decision. But thats in your scenario where there is no discrimination. In the real world I’d rather she not have to live through the shit that gay people have to endure. While I can definitely see where you’re coming from, I’l go even further and say I wouldn’t choose **in our world**. There’s just something immensely creepy to me about making such a choice on someone else’s behalf. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/26 "2005-07-16T17:45:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Now, _if you could_ choose her sexual orientation for her, which would you choose? Lacking discrimination? I’d choose for her to be gay. She could then have great sex without ever worrying about pregnancy. And if either partner decided to become pregnant, they could do that, too. But, of course, I don’t get to choose. And, discrimination isn’t lacking. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/27 "2005-07-16T17:48:19Z")
I can see how that may have come off sounding, but no I wouldn’t choose for her in our world either. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/28 "2005-07-16T17:50:37Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > I can see how that may have come off sounding, but no I wouldn’t choose for her in our world either. Ah, gotcha–misread. Sorry! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![DeathOnTwoLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f08c70/32.png) [@DeathOnTwoLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeathOnTwoLegs)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/29 "2005-07-16T18:22:38Z")
Does the question require me to make a choice? Under all circumstances it seems completely unfair to choose someone’s orientation for them. It kind of seems to me like asking “In a world where there is no discrimination based on race, if you had to chose for your child to be black or white, what would you chose?” There is simply no fast way to approach this kind of question. Joey ---
**Author:** ![Liz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/liz/32/17737_2.png) [@Liz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liz)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/30 "2005-07-16T21:54:57Z")
> [@DeathOnTwoLegs](#): > > Studies have proven that when a human being makes a statement, he will continue to reaffirm that statement even if it becomes obvious or he comes to personally believe that he is wrong. I am going to say, and not just to go against this study, that you have all changed my mind. > > If anyone, by all means, wishes to continue to discuss this interesting subject, that would be excellent. However, noone should feel the need to convince me any further. > > My opinion was based strongly on my personal observations of friends and relatives and their experiences with the people close to them, as well as how my relationship with my parents has affected me. However, I had failed to bring into consideration the broader possibilities of family relationships, and to realize that the typical parental bonds (such as the typical “father and son” bond) were not the only ways in which a child could recieve strong guidance, friendship, companionship, etc. with someone close to them. Also, it is beyond obvious to me now that just because a boy has two mothers or a girl has two fathers does not mean that they will not meet people of the same sex who have a profound effect on them. > > Thank you all. > > En Taro Adun, > (why did I just type that?) > Joey I appreciate that more than I can express. I’d like to apologize for how pissy my post sounded – hopefully you can understand that it’s a bit of a hot topic for me. Welcome to the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![funeste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@funeste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/funeste)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/31 "2005-07-16T21:56:58Z")
> [@DeathOnTwoLegs](#): > > Studies have proven that when a human being makes a statement, he will continue to reaffirm that statement even if it becomes obvious or he comes to personally believe that he is wrong. I am going to say, and not just to go against this study, that you have all changed my mind. I want to commend you for this, not because you have come around to my POV, but simply for listening to contrary opinions in good faith and having the necessary humility to change your mind. Perhaps I’m a cynic, but it’s a rare person that will readily acknowledge the possibility that they might be wrong, especially when emotional issues like same-sex marriage are concerned. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Pythian\_Habenero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a6a055/32.png) [@Pythian\_Habenero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pythian_Habenero)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/32 "2005-07-16T22:22:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Here is a question for all: > > You have a child, boy or girl, you pick. For the example, I’ll use a girl. You love her more than anything. You would give your life for hers in a second. You want the best of everything for her. Health, education happiness. Nothing can lessen the love you feel for her one iota, certainly not the sex of a partner she might choose to spend the rest of her life with. and, for this example, same-sex couples would suffer no type of discrimination whatsoever. > > Now, _if you could_ choose her sexual orientation for her, which would you choose? I’d either leave it be and allow her to grow up whichever way she happened to, because I don’t hold with making that kind of choice for someone… or, if I had to pick, I’d choose for her to be bisexual. Best of both worlds, and all that (not that there’s anything wrong with people who aren’t bisexual). ---
**Author:** ![Axel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@Axel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Axel)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/33 "2005-07-17T18:16:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Here is a question for all: > > You have a child, boy or girl, you pick. For the example, I’ll use a girl. You love her more than anything. You would give your life for hers in a second. You want the best of everything for her. Health, education happiness. Nothing can lessen the love you feel for her one iota, certainly not the sex of a partner she might choose to spend the rest of her life with. and, for this example, same-sex couples would suffer no type of discrimination whatsoever. > > Now, _if you could_ choose her sexual orientation for her, which would you choose? If I _had to_ choose, I’d choose lesbian, definitely. Zero chance of accidental pregnancy, miniscule chance of most STDs, and it’s just all-round better! (tongue half in cheek there). Even with the current climate I’d choose for her to be lesbian. The advantages mentioned above outweight the disadvantages of discrimination. Where are you going with this question though, **magellan**? ---
**Author:** ![Axel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@Axel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Axel)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/34 "2005-07-17T18:23:00Z")
> [@DeathOnTwoLegs](#): > > Studies have proven that when a human being makes a statement, he will continue to reaffirm that statement even if it becomes obvious or he comes to personally believe that he is wrong. I am going to say, and not just to go against this study, that you have all changed my mind. 🙂 I think this post should be bookmarked for rarity value! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/35 "2005-07-18T01:32:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Against Gay Marriage = Against Homosexuality? As for your title, one can not assume against gay marriage does equal against homosexuality, simply because one can be against all marriage and not in any way against homosexuality. As for the rest of your OP, shame on you, you are not suppose to hint at there is a real difference between men and women, now go give yourself 20 lashes with a wet noodle. ---
**Author:** ![DeathOnTwoLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f08c70/32.png) [@DeathOnTwoLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeathOnTwoLegs)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/36 "2005-07-18T01:39:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > As for your title, one can not assume against gay marriage does equal against homosexuality, simply because one can be against all marriage and not in any way against homosexuality. > > As for the rest of your OP, shame on you, you are not suppose to hint at there is a real difference between men and women, now go give yourself 20 lashes with a wet noodle. I hope this is humor, but I can never be too cautious. If it is, it is quite funny. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/37 "2005-07-18T01:52:49Z")
Yes, the OP is anti-homosexual. You can’t say you think that a group does not deserve equal rights or that they’re not fit parents and then say that you do not hold prejudices against that group. How about coughing up some evidence that same-sex parents are any less fit than hetero couples? That “mother and a father” stuff is just a trite, baseless platitude. All the most screwed up people I’ve ever known had heterosexual parents. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/38 "2005-07-18T01:55:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > As for the rest of your OP, shame on you, you are not suppose to hint at there is a real difference between men and women, now go give yourself 20 lashes with a wet noodle. The issue is whether there is any difference in the ability of same-sex couples to parent than hetero couples. Nice attempt to caricaturize the issue, though. ---
**Author:** ![DeathOnTwoLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f08c70/32.png) [@DeathOnTwoLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeathOnTwoLegs)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/39 "2005-07-18T01:57:15Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Yes, the OP is anti-homosexual. You can’t say you think that a group does not deserve equal rights or that they’re not fit parents and then say that you do not hold prejudices against that group. > > How about coughing up some evidence that same-sex parents are any less fit than hetero couples? That “mother and a father” stuff is just a trite, baseless platitude. All the most screwed up people I’ve ever known had heterosexual parents. What is the deal with the need to label me as anti-homosexual? I had a legitimate concern about a child growing up with sufficient contact with both men and women (oh how dare I!). and for a few months, running up until a couple days ago, instead supported the use of civil unions. If someone needs to get on my case about that, they are just looking for someone’s case to get on. Joey ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776/40 "2005-07-18T02:01:46Z")
You’re pre-judging gay people as unfit parents. How is that not anti-gay? The deal is that you’re expressing an attitude based on ignorance and baseless suppositions. Do you have any evidence that gay couples can’t parent just as well as straight couples? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-gay-marriage-against-homosexuality/312776.md?page=3)