# Against my better judgment, the billfish678 banning **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 10, 2018, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567 "2018-02-10T03:10:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/21 "2018-02-10T13:44:19Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Even if you don’t agree it was a threat, I think you would certainly agree it was being a jerk, as were the rest of his posts in the thread. So this is really just a nitpick over the stated reason for the banning. I do indeed, and I suppose it is. Thanks, **Col**. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/22 "2018-02-10T13:44:52Z")
For those claiming “not a real threat”, may I refer you to the Zenster banning where he was banned, not for making a threat, but was banned for making a _hypothetical_ threat. Something like “IF you were in my state and IF you were in my neighborhood and IF you were to park in front of a fire hydrant, then I’d take an axe-handle to you”. The board’s always been (mostly correctly) touchy about physical threats. They once even went so far as to mod or suspend a guy for saying something like “In an argument, I’d mop the floor with you” because “mop the floor” implies physical violence. Not a shining Dope moment, but consistant. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/23 "2018-02-10T13:48:24Z")
It was absolutely a threat, and there’s no possible interpretation of it as anything but a threat. It was probably a threat that he was physically incapable of carrying out, but that’s still a threat. It might have been a joke, but it was a joke which took the form of a threat. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/24 "2018-02-10T13:48:38Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I almost got nailed for the same thing. Someone accused me of a threat that I never intended. I simply said “this will not work out well for you”. I meant that to mean board moderation and deleted it as soon as I realized that it could be interpreted multiple ways but the hawks were already watching and reported it because there are a lot of people that want to see me BANNED too. All I have to do is step over the line even an inch and people are ready to pounce. > > I went 17 years without a warning but then got three in rapid succession for calling Forrest Gump a retard (“hate speech” even though the movie itself uses it), a deleted threat that I never intended and an accusation that I started repeated misogynist threads against women that don’t exist. Check it yourself if you don’t believe me. Something has changed and it seems like “the purge” for those that aren’t hard-core left-wingers. Seems that this thread concerns Billfish, perhaps you should start your own thread? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/25 "2018-02-10T14:07:20Z")
Whenever someone makes a threat, even a jokey one, I go back and read their past posts. And they’re always abrasive, trying to make ad hominem arguments and derailing threads. IOW, those make even minor threats rarely debate honestly. So, even if someone’s banned for a pattern of minor threats, we aren’t losing much. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/26 "2018-02-10T14:15:08Z")
Reviewing his [suspension](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=817254): [Use of Racial Slur](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=817254) The previous poster used the word \*wetback \*in his post. Billfish responded, putting the word in quotes. His use of the word was a quote, not a slur. [Failure to follow a moderator’s instructions](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19177437#post19177437) Moderator issued instructions, Billfish posted a minute later. Moderator’s instructions not visible when he started typing. Then edited his post to point out the simulpost. This sort of thing has happened before, and I always disagree with it. People shouldn’t be warned for not following instructions they haven’t seen. After issuing instructions, allow a few minutes period of grace for people to see them and act accordingly. Two of the tree warnings that led to his suspension were bum calls, IMO. As for the third, I don’t know. Some argument about Trump that I don’t follow. I don’t understand why it was trolling, but I’m not going to challenge it. This plus an obviously mock threat shouldn’t get him banned. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/27 "2018-02-10T14:18:35Z")
Sometimes it does seem that once a poster has an established reputation for being rebellious or trolling or disobeying mods, every further remark is filtered through that reputation and leads to warnings for things that would not draw a warning for everyone. Kinda like how (if you follow hockey at all) Antoine Roussel or someone like him gets a penalty every time there’s a scrum whether or not he did anything against the rules. I realize that some things are cumulative but I don’t necessarily think that’s a good thing. That risks the board turning into an echo chamber. Maybe some of you think Roussel and his ilk being punished based on their reputations is “good for the game.” I respectfully disagree. Sadly, this puts me in the position of sticking up for **Shagnasty** at times, but so be it. I don’t believe that someone expressing an opinion different from mine is the same thing as being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/28 "2018-02-10T14:26:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It was absolutely a threat, and there’s no possible interpretation of it as anything but a threat. It was probably a threat that he was physically incapable of carrying out, but that’s still a threat. It might have been a joke, but it was a joke which took the form of a threat. **Chronos** , I like you just great but you are the one that gave me a warning for calling Forrest Gump a “retard” as “hate speech” even though that term is used in the movie itself. It was later reversed because it had no bearing. He didn’t make a threat. It is a phrase that doesn’t literally mean what you are implying. If it was really considered so in the real world, 3/4 of my coworkers would be gone including the managers and especially the women. America - a country separated by a common language. You just got exposed to academia for too long. Most of the rest of the world doesn’t work that way. I don’t think it is a good idea to make the SDMB more incestuous than it already is by purging people with divergent viewpoints. It is fine to ban trolls and straight up crackpots but he wasn’t among them. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/29 "2018-02-10T14:44:14Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I do indeed, and I suppose it is. Thanks, **Col**. Plus, you know, he was on the wrong side of the argument… ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/30 "2018-02-10T14:54:09Z")
. nc ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/31 "2018-02-10T14:59:42Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You just got exposed to academia for too long. Most of the rest of the world doesn’t work that way. I don’t think it is a good idea to make the SDMB more incestuous than it already is by purging people with divergent viewpoints… I’ve been hearing this nonsense for over 18 years now. That dog doesn’t hunt. This was obviously not a banning based on ideology nor “divergent viewpoint,” and your relitigation of you own issues is bringing more heat than light. This was very clearly a banning for being a jerk, and as **Colibri** accurately points out, threat/not threat is a minor nitpick on my part. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/32 "2018-02-10T15:01:26Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Reviewing his [suspension](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=817254): > > [Use of Racial Slur](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=817254) > > The previous poster used the word \*wetback \*in his post. Billfish responded, putting the word in quotes. His use of the word was a quote, not a slur. > [Failure to follow a moderator’s instructions](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19177437#post19177437) > > Moderator issued instructions, Billfish posted a minute later. Moderator’s instructions not visible when he started typing. Then edited his post to point out the simulpost. > > This sort of thing has happened before, and I always disagree with it. People shouldn’t be warned for not following instructions they haven’t seen. After issuing instructions, allow a few minutes period of grace for people to see them and act accordingly. > > Two of the tree warnings that led to his suspension were bum calls, IMO. As for the third, I don’t know. Some argument about Trump that I don’t follow. I don’t understand why it was trolling, but I’m not going to challenge it. > > This plus an obviously mock threat shouldn’t get him banned. If he could edit his post to indicate a simulapost, he could edit his post to remove the language that went against moderator instructions. He wanted to get the dig in, while looking innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/33 "2018-02-10T15:07:31Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > So is February 9th 2018 [the day the SDMB died a PC death](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19177550&postcount=130)? I’m using my iPhone not my PC. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/34 "2018-02-10T15:17:29Z")
I’ve rarely been happy to see someone banned. Rarely. But not this time. It was clearly a threat, in fact the words Billfish posted have no other interpretation, except as a (weak) threat. Clearly, “If you think I’m X, I’ll bitch slap you” is a threat. Whether it’s a conditional threat has never mattered here. Bone gets a +1 here for being on top of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/35 "2018-02-10T15:25:18Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > … > He didn’t make a threat. It is a phrase that doesn’t literally mean what you are implying. If it was really considered so in the real world, 3/4 of my coworkers would be gone including the managers and especially the women. > > … I would really appreciate it if you left “women” out of one of your posts. Just one. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/36 "2018-02-10T15:33:05Z")
I think it’s important to identify why we prohibit threats. There are at least a few reasons: [ol] [li]Obviously we don’t want to condone someone who would seek out to harm another person in real life.[/li][li]Threats are almost universally jerky of a specific nature.[/li][li]Threats are destructive to discourse.[/li][/ol] For the folks that believe this wasn’t a real threat, that there wasn’t a means and opportunity to carry it out - that only covers #1. Even insincere threats can still be violative of #2 and #3. From above in post #11: > [@](#): > > We are very anti threat directed at other posters. Imagine if this type of thing were not verboten. Responses could be peppered with variations of ‘if you said that to my face I’d punch you’ or ‘youre lucky I wasn’t there or else I’d have slapped you upside the head’ or ‘if you disagree with me I’ll beat some sense into you’, etc. When people engage in that level of discourse discussion breaks down. If this type of behavior were not moderated, discussion becomes much more difficult at best, and reduced to schoolyard taunts more often. That’s a bad outcome. I do not believe that every instance of internet tough guy will result in physical harm to come to someone, but that’s not the point. It does happen, and that’s #1 from above. But the other two rationales are just as operative. So the first question is, is this post actionable? According to the [rules in the forum](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818217): > [@](#): > > Threatening harm - Posters may not threaten to harm or to wish for harm to befall other posters for any reason whatsoever. So yes, the post is actionable. The second question is what is the appropriate response? And as I said in post #11, the pattern of behavior, the previous suspension, the response to the warning, both in thread and via email, and the history of abusive responses factored in the group decision. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/37 "2018-02-10T15:33:32Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I would really appreciate it if you left “women” out of one of your posts. Just one. > Thank you. Do a search on my history. I never started very many threads about women at all since 2000. It is a myth that someone perpetuated. The vast majority of my posts have nothing to do with relationships or women. People don’t seem to believe it but look it up yourself. I post on lots of topics that I am knowledgeable in. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/38 "2018-02-10T15:37:04Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > If he could edit his post to indicate a simulapost, he could edit his post to remove the language that went against moderator instructions. > > He wanted to get the dig in, while looking innocent. Wrong. Some people subscribe to threads and get an email every time it’s updated. His words would have gone out to all subscribers. The words once posted cannot be unposted. In such a situation the correct thing to do is leave the words there, and explain that he hadn’t seen the instructions. Which is what he did. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/39 "2018-02-10T15:40:07Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Wrong. Some people subscribe to threads and get an email every time it’s updated. His words would have gone out to all subscribers. The words once posted cannot be unposted. > > In such a situation the correct thing to do is leave the words there, and explain that he hadn’t seen the instructions. Which is what he did. No, not wrong. That is not the best course of action. Anyone who subscribes, if they can see the update to indicate the simulpost they can see the edit that removes the offensive content. He could even say “simulposted with moderator warning, removed content”. It’s a cheap way to get a last dig in, and avoid consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567/40 "2018-02-10T15:43:40Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > If someone said that to me, it would cause me to say, “Shut the fuck up.” That phrase is a lot more offensive that the topic at hand. Why do you think it would be acceptable to say that to someone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-my-better-judgment-the-billfish678-banning/808567.md?page=3)