# Against Same Sex and Different Sex Marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783 "2014-01-14T14:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783/81 "2014-11-11T05:58:22Z")
Just heard about our tax refund for a couple of years ago, when we were married but not yet recognized by the Fed. Go, same-sex marriage! Bestowing economic benefits on a couple of women! ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783/82 "2014-11-11T07:26:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Besides, the reason places like "Alabama in 1962 exist to begin with is specifically _because_ people like people from Alabama in 1962 are allowed to raise children and indoctrinate them to believe in nonsense. Where do you think kids learn that one race is better than the other? Not at school. Who do you think the state of Alabama would have licensed as professional child-raisers in 1962, and what do you think their racial beliefs would have been? And yes, the Alabama schools in 1962 were staffed by licensed professionals, most of whom were sure and certain that one race is better than another and so taught the children in their charge. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783/83 "2014-11-11T15:33:55Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I don’t think so. Just look at popular novels from the 18th century. In half of them, the hero and heroine are in love with each other and trying to get married, while the villain is trying to keep them apart or force a different marriage for some nefarious other purpose. At the happy ending, the couple who love each other always get married. Likewise for Shakespearean comedies, written four hundred years ago. Or just read the [passage on marriage in Ephesians](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5%3A22-33&version=MSG), written almost 2,000 years ago. The idea of marriage based on love is a very old one. (At least in the West) Right, because fertile women with generous dowries find some rich descendants of landed gentry more attractive and personable than others, and vice versa. The present day equivalent of a protagonist from one of these novels would be a woman who attends a benefit gala with lots of celebrities and throws herself at Tom Brady even though Donald Trump is wealthier, or a newly minted Harvard Law graduate with political ambitions who would rather date the attractive daughter of a Congressman than the 300 lb daughter of a Senator. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783/84 "2014-11-17T19:15:02Z")
> [@](#): > > First it was a means of property transfer It was a lot more than that. It has incentive elements to it, as well as interpersonal elements to it. I always get annoyed when liberals try to claim “it was all about collecting wealth”. If that’s ALL it was about, they would have had poly-quad relationships among the gentry/rich people. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783/85 "2014-11-17T19:26:33Z")
I take a similar view, but to me the solution is clear. We simply need to recognize people’s obvious rights to freedom, which comes with the right to encumber oneself in arrangements which can be enforces against said person (i.e. contracts). Every person owns himself, and therefore has the right to own the fruits of his labor, etc. etc. etc. Standard libertarian fare, civil rights AND property rights. Why it’s so hard for our country to view things in terms of freedom, and why every side of the political spectrum sees the only way to do things as being for them to shove their cultural agenda down everyone’s throat is a mystery to me. It’s not hard to conceieve that contracts could be cultural in nature, too. This would extend beyond just marriage to people who want help with other things, like with churches there could be stuff with tithing, or contracts with the church t compel someone to do more charity if a person feels like he needs the push. Or people who want to detox in rehab when it’s a SERIOUS problem, that is forced rehab/detox for a short period. Or anything anywhere. Why should the idea of a contract be limited to monetary matters? It’s very restricting, and negates people’s basic rights. This would have to be coupled with a change in child support laws to truly represent equality. If the state really cared about the kids and holding the responsible parties responsible, it would look sternly at BOTH parents, and make them BOTH come up with some care scheme for the child within a certain amount of time (maybe a year?), on punishment that they BOTH be charged for family court fees and the child’s upkeep. Unless it’s a rape, BOTH the man and the woman are culpable for the existence of the child. This is important because people act according to incentives, and currently the incentive structure allows women to have sex with abandon, whereas men always want to have sex. Modern women want to be infantilized, abetted by modern feminism, and not have to make basic life choices and trade offs, and the consequences are serious for society. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783/86 "2014-11-17T19:58:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’ve discussed this in previous threads, but my belief is that the ideal society would be one in which children are permanently separated from their parents at birth, raised in state-operated facilities by licensed professionals, and as adults undergo training and placement in professions that best befit their individual skills and aspirations. Homer, would you please stop reading that Ross Perot pamphlet? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783/87 "2014-11-17T20:17:36Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > This would have to be coupled with a change in child support laws to truly represent equality. If the state really cared about the kids and holding the responsible parties responsible, it would look sternly at BOTH parents, and make them BOTH come up with some care scheme for the child within a certain amount of time (maybe a year?), on punishment that they BOTH be charged for family court fees and the child’s upkeep. Unless it’s a rape, BOTH the man and the woman are culpable for the existence of the child. This is important because people act according to incentives, and currently the incentive structure allows women to have sex with abandon, whereas men always want to have sex. Modern women want to be infantilized, abetted by modern feminism, and not have to make basic life choices and trade offs, and the consequences are serious for society. You seem to be disincluding little likes like “pregnancy” and “abortion” from your structure allowing women to have sex with abandon idea. And from your not having to make basic life choices and trade offs idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-same-sex-and-different-sex-marriage/678783.md?page=4)