# Against the Nazis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902 "2009-11-01T01:52:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/41 "2009-11-01T13:00:41Z")
Why are some in this thread expending so much energy to put forth the idea that a guy with a swastika tattoo might not necessarily be a Nazi? Who cares? So I propose we at least agree that most people with swastika tattoos are assholes and leave it at that. But to bring it back to the OP, we shouldn’t go around dismembering people at fast food restaurants either - it’s bound to cause talk. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/42 "2009-11-01T13:26:11Z")
If they were real, ideologue Nazis, they would go to [Cracker Barrel](http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/16/cracker.barrel.beating/), not Carl’s Jr. If they were ex-cons who bacame Nazis inside for protection, they’d go to Waffle House to get free food from their cellies who work there (WH is big on hiring ex-cons, which is truer Christian than Chick-Filet funding abortion protests, but that’s another thread) So I’m voting for the trick-or-treater theory. (And I’m advising against a child-molestor theme for anyone’s costume next year, or at least the trip to diner later.) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/43 "2009-11-01T14:54:03Z")
Swastika tatoos and other German Nazi symbolism as worn by outlaw bikers and other assholes are meant to intimidate and insult the squares, nothing more. Just like the middle finger decals, the fuck you patches and all that other garbage. Although there is some overlap between modern day Nazis and swastika wearing assholes, the two groups are not identical. The safer bet is that the swastika is meant to insult and intimidate you as a square, not make a statement of political ideology. ---
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/44 "2009-11-01T15:05:49Z")
So what if they are “nazis”, this is supposed to be a free country. As long as they don’t act upon it, who cares? I guess you could make the case that they are threatening Jews and possibly others, but apparently free speech trumps that. I could see saying that you disagree with Nazi views and find people who cavalierly or deliberately wear their symbols abhorent, most people do, but kill them? Start a thread to get on a soapbox and say how much you want to torture them? Sorry, that’s nuts. Just a self-righteous masturbation fest. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/45 "2009-11-01T15:11:35Z")
“Insult the squares?” The 1950s called… No, wait. It’s on Wikipedia, so it must be making a comeback. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/46 "2009-11-01T15:15:46Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > I hate neo-Nazis but I’d rather just not even pay attention to them at all. They want you to do that, of course. I don’t think they just want attention. You could do that without making people feel rage at the expression their “style” stands for. You don’t see many “wimpy” looking obvious neo-nazi’s unless they are in a gang, so basically, it’s mostly just trouble-seeking yobs saying “Fuck You” to those they are picking on this hunting season. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/47 "2009-11-01T15:20:23Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > “Insult the squares?” > > The 1950s called… > > No, wait. It’s on Wikipedia, so it must be making a comeback. I don’t see how a more modern term would be an improvement. Isn’t the perception that that attitudes of the ‘squares’ is stuck in the 1950s anyway? ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyMac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@JohnnyMac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyMac)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/48 "2009-11-01T15:37:00Z")
Yeah, the bikers and the neo-Nazis are probably all assholes (though I’ve found a lot of bikers to be interesting conversational companions)…but I think there’s a huge difference in the degree of assholery here. It’s worth making the distinction between “I want to intimidate you” and “I want to wipe out your race”. I’m 21, and I think the term “squares” is just perfect for describing, well, squares…of course, truth be told, I’m more than a little attracted to the irony of using such an old-fashioned word to describe them. What are you, a square? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/49 "2009-11-01T15:47:28Z")
Jesus, **Argent** , you’ve painted yourself into a corner that has you twisting like a pretzel to defend a third-party skinhead against the presumption that he knew what he was doing when he got a fucking Swastika tattoo. A dude who wears it uncovered. And eats at fucking Carl’s Junior! What more fucking proof do you need? You’re lookin kinda ridiculous. Just admit that your love of the underdog led you to leap all unthinking-like to the devil’s advocate position before you gave yourself much chance to reflect. If there’s anyone who doesn’t need to be defended against the kind of first impression he gives, \*it’s a dude who wears an unobscured Swastika tattoo. \*Who’s next on your client list, Levi Johnston? Save your energy for a real battle. K? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/50 "2009-11-01T15:49:05Z")
Oh, I think the term is the cat’s pajamas. I guess I was appreciating the quaintness of turning to Wikipedia to capture the spirit and essence of “outlaw” bikers. See: rubbies :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/51 "2009-11-01T16:02:15Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > “Insult the squares?” > > The 1950s called… > > No, wait. It’s on Wikipedia, so it must be making a comeback. Your mother called, too. The gangbang is over and she wants you to come pick her up. She said you might want to put some newspaper on your car seats, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/52 "2009-11-01T16:27:28Z")
Bwahaha… that’s _funny_! Mother jokes! You know, after choosing a name like **Scum _Pup_** , you may want to rethink that line. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/53 "2009-11-01T17:00:17Z")
Dude, There is nothing lamer in the whole history of the net than attempting insult based on user names. It was lame back in the days of local bulletin boards. If that’s the best you can muster, then I can’t be bothered to interact with you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/54 "2009-11-01T17:14:22Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Dude, > There is nothing lamer in the whole history of the net than attempting insult based on user names. Ah, shaddup, ya sonuvabitch! That’s me trying to be clever and ironic and probably failing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/55 "2009-11-01T17:25:46Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Dude, > There is nothing lamer in the whole history of the net than attempting insult based on user names. It was lame back in the days of local bulletin boards. If that’s the best you can muster, then I can’t be bothered to interact with you. While lame, come on. You have to admit that, for example, threatening to beat people up over the internet is way lamer than a little username taunting. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/56 "2009-11-01T17:28:01Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Dude, > There is nothing lamer in the whole history of the net than attempting insult based on user names. It was lame back in the days of local bulletin boards. If that’s the best you can muster, then I can’t be bothered to interact with you. You tell 'im, **Cumpoop**! ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/57 "2009-11-01T17:29:06Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Dude, > There is nothing lamer in the whole history of the net than attempting insult based on user names. It was lame back in the days of local bulletin boards. If that’s the best you can muster, then I can’t be bothered to interact with you. This from someone who threw out a random “yo mamma?” I guess I was just taken by the irony of your choice of humor and choice of username. Bye! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/58 "2009-11-01T18:01:07Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > While lame, come on. You have to admit that, for example, threatening to beat people up over the internet is way lamer than a little username taunting. Now? Absolutely. Back in the days of steam-powered local bulletin boards, it was more of a toss-up. At that time, the ITG was at least threatening a guy who lived close enough to feasibly meet and fight. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/59 "2009-11-01T19:05:41Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Jesus, **Argent** , you’ve painted yourself into a corner that has you twisting like a pretzel to defend a third-party skinhead against the presumption that he knew what he was doing when he got a fucking Swastika tattoo. A dude who wears it uncovered. And eats at fucking Carl’s Junior! What more fucking proof do you need? > > You’re lookin kinda ridiculous. Just admit that your love of the underdog led you to leap all unthinking-like to the devil’s advocate position before you gave yourself much chance to reflect. If there’s anyone who doesn’t need to be defended against the kind of first impression he gives, \*it’s a dude who wears an unobscured Swastika tattoo. \*Who’s next on your client list, Levi Johnston? Save your energy for a real battle. K? Except that he’s absolutely correct: a lot of bikers do affect Nazi symbology without necessarily ascribing to Nazi philosophy. It may be a largely academic distinction, sure. A guy wearing swastika tattoos because he wants an excuse to pick a fight is still an asshole. Maybe not as much of an asshole as a guy wearing swastika tattoos because he hates the Jews, but they’re still both well past the asshole event horizon. In practical terms, it’s not going to make a difference in how I treat the person. In abstract terms, it’s interesting to remember that even as widely recognized a symbol as a Nazi swastika can still have multiple meanings, depending on who’s displaying it. Anyway, getting back to the OP, I admit that after the passage of Prop. 8, I had a powerful urge to burn down a Mormon church. Not my proudest impulse, but fucking hell, I was pissed at those bigoted little buggers. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902/60 "2009-11-01T19:14:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, the deviant reputation of skinheads stems not only from > their behaviour but also from the very menacing image they project or, in > other words, their style. According to Brake, style is made up of three main > ingredients: image, which includes costume and accessories; demeanour, > which includes gait, posture and practice; and argot, or the use of a distinct > vocabulary (1985: 12). With such identifying characteristics or style in > mind, Brake described the early British skinheads as: > > ``` > Aggressive working-class puritans in big industrial boots, jeans rolled > up high to reveal them, hair cut to the skull, braces, and a violence and > racism [that] earned for them the title "bovver boys," "boot-boys" on the > look out for "aggro" (aggravation). Stylistically they have roots in the > hard mods, forming local gangs called after a local leader or an area. > Ardent football fans, they were involved in violence on the terraces > against rival supporters. They espoused traditional conservative val > ues, hard work, patriotism, defence of local territory, which led to > attacks on hippies, gays and minorities. They became a metaphor for > racism. . . . "Puritans in boots," they opposed hippy liberalism, > subjectivity and disdain for work, attempting to "magically recover the > traditional working-class community" (75-76). > > ``` > > Since the first generation of British skinheads, surprisingly little research > into the various manifestations of the subculture has been conducted. Fuck it - let’s just beat the shit out of them, swastika-tattooed or not! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/against-the-nazis/515902.md?page=4)