# Agatha All Along **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [September 19, 2024, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461 "2024-09-19T06:26:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/101 "2024-11-05T04:21:05Z")
Maybe she thinks hanging around as a ghost is better than her alternate destination. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/102 "2024-11-05T04:23:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Although she doesn’t have any friends (having treated charisma as her dump stat) This is a poor characterization of Agatha. She’s _extremely_ charismatic - how exactly do you think she’s spending centuries convincing entire covens to follow her lead? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > because apparently witches uniformly respond to mouthy assholes by straight-up murdering them for being mouthy, and also they always choose basic witch blasting as their murder weapon Who said the other witches are always the first to shoot? Agatha is Han - she’s shooting first, and once the other witches respond their power is hers. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/103 "2024-11-05T06:06:34Z")
I loved the last episode, myself (even the absolute absurdity of all those open witches in colonial New England). No notes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/104 "2024-11-05T07:47:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So the serial killer’s MO was: > > 1. Popularize a song written by a ten-year-old. Nope. Initially the performance of the song was just a way of luring some witches to a place where Agatha could zap them. There was never a plan to have it go viral. Agatha just took advantage of it when it did. > [@](#): > > 1. Although she doesn’t have any friends (having treated charisma as her dump stat) somehow build a nationwide or worldwide legend among witches based on this ten-year-old’s song. > 2. Although nobody except Agatha has any experience with the Witch’s Road, somehow convince entire covens to risk their lives traveling it. As pointed out already, Agatha is _extremely_ charismatic. And she’s not convincing anyone - they’re coming to **her** to travel the Road. > [@](#): > > 1. When it doesn’t work, insult the covens, because apparently witches uniformly respond to mouthy assholes by straight-up murdering them for being mouthy, and also they always choose basic witch blasting as their murder weapon, and that’s lucky for Agatha, because any other murder method would murder her. Agatha shot first. > [@](#): > > 1. Kill all the witches and leave their mummified but recognizeable bodies behind, relying on nobody over the course of centuries saying, “Hey, weren’t these witches talking with Agatha right before they all died?” I had assumed she was disposing of the bodies afterwards for that very reason, although my impression is that the plan to go down the Road was always very hush-hush so it may not have been widely known they were talking to her. Agatha is a great one for seizing opportunities and making them work for her, usually to the detriment of others. I think she only stumbled when it came to betraying Wiccan because he reminded her of her son. And even then, she seized the opportunity to carry on as a ghost. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/105 "2024-11-05T08:31:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Agatha shot first. Did she? I completely missed that. To me, it always seemed like she threw taunts, then leaned back expecting that sweet magic juice being pumped into her… ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/106 "2024-11-05T10:43:26Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Maybe she thinks hanging around as a ghost is better than her alternate destination. Didn’t she say that it was because she couldn’t face seeing her son again? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/107 "2024-11-05T11:43:15Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > This is a poor characterization of Agatha. She’s _extremely_ charismatic - how exactly do you think she’s spending centuries convincing entire covens to follow her lead? That’s exactly my point, though. Her screen time is filled with sneering at and insulting everyone around her, and them showing their open dislike for her. The idea that she’s convincing all these covens to follow her is one part of what made her plan implausible. There’s nothing to show us her charisma. > [@Munch](#): > > Who said the other witches are always the first to shoot? The director? The scriptwriter? The actors? The CGI crew? I’m not sure who, but in our montage, we see her insult them, them blast her, over and over and over. > [@Gyrate](#): > > I had assumed she was disposing of the bodies afterwards for that very reason Except they repeatedly show Agatha just walking away from the bodies, instead of showing her doing the slightest bit of work to clean up the crime scene. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/108 "2024-11-05T14:08:41Z")
> [@JacobSwan](#): > > > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > > Maybe she thinks hanging around as a ghost is better than her alternate destination. > > Didn’t she say that it was because she couldn’t face seeing her son again? She did. Nicholas died shortly after he asked her to please stop murdering everyone. He even talked some from “helping him out” (luring them to their purplely deaths). Even if you’re evil, something like that has to weigh heavily on the conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/109 "2024-11-05T14:39:46Z")
This may be picking nits, but didn’t she say she couldn’t face _him_ again, without specifying who “he” was? It could have been Nicholas, but it could have been Mephisto. Or perhaps I’m misremembering. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/110 "2024-11-05T14:44:29Z")
She did say “him.” I inferred it to mean Nicholas. ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/111 "2024-11-05T15:10:57Z")
This reveal does explain why all the trials on this supposedly extreme test were so easy. One thing that was annoying me was that the only reason they kept cutting it fine was due to squabbling and in-fighting. These trials were too easy for a focused coven. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/112 "2024-11-05T15:24:14Z")
> [@colinfred](#): > > These trials were too easy for a focused coven. How focused would you be in a coven with a known coven killer among you? ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/113 "2024-11-05T15:36:11Z")
But the Road ,as we understood it for 8 episodes, is a real thing, and the trials therin were supposed to be really hard. Without the context of episode 9’s reveal the tasks were very easy. The hodgepodge nature of the fractious coven that entered in this case should have been blown away in the first task, still squabbling. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/114 "2024-11-10T00:23:38Z")
What gives you the idea that Agatha was following a long-term plan? The 9th episode shows her using all sorts of short term strategies to make money or get power - but nothing long-term at all. She gets witches distracted by a thief so she can attack them unaware, or she has her son sing a song, and tries to persuade onlookers to donate money, etc., etc. Once Nicholas dies, a naive witch shows up and interrupts Agatha’s grief to beg info about the fictional Road, but there’s no indication that Agatha ever intended that to happen. She just sees it as another opportunity to run a scam. Given that witches are apparently common but insular, Agatha can run the Witches’ Road scam every few decades when she runs into some suckers without being exposed - but the only time she’s really desperate to have it work is in Episode 2, when she’s in immediate danger, and has a sucker right in front of her - and sure enough this time, when she actually has to persuade people to join her, as opposed to having the suckers come to her, things don’t work out so well. P.S. I think you’re misinterpreting her approach in general - some con artists try to be very friendly and convince you that their basic good nature is making them offer you a (too-)good deal - but it’s a valid strategy to pretend to be aloof, so the sucker ends up begging the con artist to be let in on the deal that the con artist is withholding - and that’s what Agatha is doing in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2024, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/115 "2024-11-10T11:33:01Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Once Nicholas dies, a naive witch shows up and interrupts Agatha’s grief to beg info about the fictional Road, but there’s no indication that Agatha ever intended that to happen. She just sees it as another opportunity to run a scam. Given that witches are apparently common but insular, Agatha can run the Witches’ Road scam every few decades when she runs into some suckers without being exposed - but the only time she’s really desperate to have it work is in Episode 2, when she’s in immediate danger, and has a sucker right in front of her - and sure enough this time, when she actually has to persuade people to join her, as opposed to having the suckers come to her, things don’t work out so well. All the steps I described seem to be what happened. The song her son wrote became well-enough known that she could run this scam hundreds of years later (admittedly, maybe it went Ye Olde Viral, so the first step I described might not have been on her). Speculation that she only ran this scam as one among many sounds like strong headcanon to me: the montage didn’t show her running a bunch of scams, it showed only this one. Sure, pre-kid-death, she did many scams; but post-kid-death, there were no other scams shown, only this one over and over and over. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > P.S. I think you’re misinterpreting her approach in general - some con artists try to be very friendly and convince you that their basic good nature is making them offer you a (too-)good deal - but it’s a valid strategy to pretend to be aloof, so the sucker ends up begging the con artist to be let in on the deal that the con artist is withholding - and that’s what Agatha is doing in some cases. Absolutely. That’s fine. What’s not fine is the idea that over and over, the witches respond to her bitchiness by turning their proton packs on her simultaneously. That’s ridiculous. All it would take is for one of the witches over the centuries to not Ghostbuster it up, see what’s happening, and whack her on the head with a rock instead. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/116 "2024-11-10T21:37:36Z")
First of all, my apologies for my cranky tone - I must have been in a bad mood last night. My primary objection is to the idea that there was a plan involved with the Road myth. I agree that it’s a silly idea that Agatha can automatically count on her opponents always to attack blindly and thus get their powers drained (in fact, we see that approach fail in Ep 2) - but I was willing to buy that the montage was focusing on visually dramatic scenes and not on any prep work, since we also see that Agatha _can and will_ kill witches who aren’t attacking her (the witches chasing Nicky were drained and so were the witches who offered shelter and care to Nicky and Agatha). I wouldn’t underestimate Agatha’s ability to get under people’s skins and make them blindly furious, given time to prepare, either (in Ep 2, she’s got her back against the wall and can be assumed to be taking risks she wouldn’t otherwise take – which may be why her usual approach fails there (Lillia attacks but isn’t killed). And Agatha is probably invulnerable to many physical attacks (when she has her normal powers). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/117 "2024-11-10T22:04:28Z")
All of that may be true–_but none of it was portrayed on screen_. An additional thirty seconds of screen time showing that her plan sometimes failed, or that she was immune to physical attacks, or otherwise that her plan wasn’t simply “piss people off using the exact same story each time, get them to blast her simultaneously, drain them”, would have made it a lot less annoying to me. As I watched it, I was like, WTF, _seriously_? The silliness of it _as portrayed_ just took me out of the story. Edit: and no worries about any crankiness. I realize that I’m shitting in the punch bowl here, and I’m genuinely glad that other people enjoyed it, and my goal isn’t to ruin it for anyone; rather, I’m just expressing my own frustration with it, and am curious if anyone else had the same issues with it that I had. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2024, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/118 "2024-11-10T22:19:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m just expressing my own frustration with it, and am curious if anyone else had the same issues with it that I had. Any silliness gets a pass from me in a comic book universe. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/119 "2024-11-10T22:51:57Z")
I get that. For me, motivations and behavior have to be plausible, even if nothing else is. It was the motivations and behavior of her victims that fell so flat for me. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461/120 "2024-11-17T05:42:22Z")
I’m curious why you think the trials were easy? A few resulted in casualties, and the solutions weren’t always obvious. And there was a time limit. I do agree though that once the solution was discovered, they had more trouble completing it than they should have. But they weren’t a real coven, it was just a group brought together out of convenience. But certainly they were reasonably difficult challenges even for witches who get along. And more clever than Wiccan probably could have designed consciously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agatha-all-along/1007461.md?page=7)