# Age at which a women can be called old crone? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639 "2010-06-10T11:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/21 "2010-06-13T18:25:33Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Why I didn’t cast a vote in this poll: > > I don’t like your use of it as a pejorative. In Witchcraft communities, it’s a very positive term for a mature woman who is looked up to as a senior Witch and wise woman. The male equivalent, for a mature man, is sage. The epithet of ugly was uncalled for. A mature woman can still be hot, you know, and I’ve known plenty of attractive Crones. Once I became a grandmother (at age 45), the Crone leader in my community said I’d qualify for a croning ceremony. Some Witches have made up a backronym for it: Creative Researcher Of New Experiences. The Crone is a name for one aspect of the Triple Goddess in Pagan communities. The Triple Goddess is Maiden, Mother, and Crone. The concept is generally post-menopausal. So if I were to vote for the meaning of Crone, it would be a post-menopausal woman. I agree with you, and was actually shocked to see it used in the OP as a pejorative, because it’s just not a word I hear anymore in non-neopagan circles. However…I don’t think that because we’ve retconned the word, we get to tell other people that they have to use our new definition. “Crone”, for better or worse, has had a negative connotation and a literal meaning including “ugly” for more than a century. We can use it religiously/culturally as we like, but that’s no reason to expect the Muggles to know our use or to feel insulted when they use the more mainstream definition (for an admittedly archaic word). For the religious sense of the word, I think a woman is a Crone when she feels she is. Some feel that way when they stop bleeding, some when they stop working full time, some when their grandchildren are born, some when they take on an important volunteer position in a community… I’ve had women tell me they were ready for their Cronings for many different reasons. For the colloquial sense of the word the OP is talking about, I can see it applied to any woman over 40 who’s acting poorly, rudely or abusively. (Younger women acting the same way are “bitches”.) ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/22 "2010-06-13T23:45:36Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Why I didn’t cast a vote in this poll: > > I don’t like your use of it as a pejorative. In Witchcraft communities, it’s a very positive term for a mature woman who is looked up to as a senior Witch and wise woman. The male equivalent, for a mature man, is sage. The epithet of ugly was uncalled for. A mature woman can still be hot, you know, and I’ve known plenty of attractive Crones. Once I became a grandmother (at age 45), the Crone leader in my community said I’d qualify for a croning ceremony. Some Witches have made up a backronym for it: Creative Researcher Of New Experiences. The Crone is a name for one aspect of the Triple Goddess in Pagan communities. The Triple Goddess is Maiden, Mother, and Crone. The concept is generally post-menopausal. So if I were to vote for the meaning of Crone, it would be a post-menopausal woman. “And hillbillies want to be called ‘Sons of the Soil’, but it ain’t gonna happen.” – Dr. Hibbert ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/23 "2010-06-13T23:55:04Z")
Did anyone actually look up the word crone? > [@](#): > > deriving from the Anglo-French word carogne (an insult), itself deriving from the Old North French carogne, caroigne, meaning a disagreeable woman (literally meaning “carrion”). if neo pagans use it as a positive term in their circle, that’s fine, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is an insult, and has always been an insult, given particularly to old women. ETA, worry **WhyNot** , this post looks like I totally ignored yours. ---
**Author:** ![pope\_hentai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@pope\_hentai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pope_hentai)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/24 "2010-06-14T01:35:16Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I would never call a woman an old crone. I’d call her an old bat. Same age when I’d call her male counterpart an old geezer. I find that term offensive to small flying rodents. so i choose not to use it as a pejorative. > [@Bootis](#): > > Did anyone actually look up the word crone? > > if neo pagans use it as a positive term in their circle, that’s fine, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is an insult, and has always been an insult, given particularly to old women. Most “neo-pagans” don’t seem to realize their “ancient” religion isn’t much older than discordianism. but to seriously answer the question, they would be an “old crone” or “dried up wizened old bat” whenever they are old enough to have pissed me off recently. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/25 "2010-06-14T01:44:05Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > if neo pagans use it as a positive term in their circle, that’s fine, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is an insult, and has always been an insult, given particularly to old women. I think if we really tried, we could reclaim “crone” and save it: “Hey, what can I get you, you old crone? . . . . hey, it’s cool, I’m taking it back” ---
**Author:** ![Proudest\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/proudest_monkey/32/13257_2.png) [@Proudest\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Proudest_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/26 "2010-06-15T22:40:32Z")
I’m ashamed to admit that we call the woman who lives across the street **The Crone**. Not to her (old, wrinkly) face, of course! I know it sounds perjorative and mean, but honest-to-Jebus, we are too close to oldness ourselves to be calling the elderly names, and besides, her license plate reads\*\* Crone\*\*. She’s 89, and I wonder how long ago she got that vanity plate. On her rarely-used Buick. Which she can’t drive for shit. ---
**Author:** ![Wunky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4bbf92/32.png) [@Wunky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wunky)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/27 "2010-06-16T01:42:37Z")
over 40 ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/28 "2010-06-16T21:13:37Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > You asked for people’s opinions and you got one. :rolleyes: yourself. Couldn’t agree more. Perhaps you should take Johanna’s remarks gracefully and move on. I agree with her too, btw. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639/29 "2010-06-16T21:19:35Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I think if we really tried, we could reclaim “crone” and save it: “Hey, what can I get you, you old crone? . . . . hey, it’s cool, I’m taking it back” “You can’t take it back! You’re a guy!” “Well, look who’s sayin’ I can’t do something because of my gender. You’re the sexist.” I love that movie! (Clerks 2) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-at-which-a-women-can-be-called-old-crone/542639.md?page=1)