# Age related computer comprehension problems? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519 "2020-08-07T18:20:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/61 "2020-08-10T02:25:14Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > when I open your link, I have to click the 3-lines “hamburger” menu to even get those topics you listed. Huh. Maybe it’s the browser? It’s right there for me. Firefox on Mac. – also in Safari. Are you on a phone? Maybe that’s the difference. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > you mean the “expand this item carat”. Yeah, I’ve seen that. But it’s always used next to the thing it is expanding, in my experience. Honestly, I’d be confused to just see it on it’s own. Seven syllables seems like kind of a long name for it. And I don’t see why an indicator well known in combination should be more confusing seen on its own than an entirely new symbol. (Yes, I realize the hamburger’s not new any longer. But somebody, at some point, decided instead of a down carat used without text to use the hamburger without text.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/62 "2020-08-10T02:38:00Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > > > when I open your link, I have to click the 3-lines “hamburger” menu to even get those topics you listed. > > Huh. Maybe it’s the browser? It’s right there for me. Firefox on Mac. – also in Safari. Are you on a phone? Maybe that’s the difference. I’m using Chrome on a Mac and also have to click the “menus here” (hamburger) menu to get the drop-downs you describe. That opens up a new column full of menus, most of which have a drop-down carat. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > you mean the “expand this item carat”. Yeah, I’ve seen that. But it’s always used next to the thing it is expanding, in my experience. Honestly, I’d be confused to just see it on it’s own. > > Seven syllables seems like kind of a long name for it. > > And I don’t see why an indicator well known in combination should be more confusing seen on its own than an entirely new symbol. (Yes, I realize the hamburger’s not new any longer. But somebody, at some point, decided instead of a down carat used without text to use the hamburger without text.) Well, I actually think it would be slightly more confusing because the meaning of the drop-down carat is a little different. It says “expand this (text) item”, it doesn’t say “open a list by clicking this”. A subtle distinction that I’m sure we all could have coped with had that become the standard, but I do read them as semantically different. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/63 "2020-08-10T02:42:20Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It’s probably the keyboard, not the OS: I’m on a Mac and using a Mac keyboard and I have an end key: to the right of the letters, there’s a little clump of navigation keys: page up and page down and home (top of the page) and end (bottom of the page.) If I’ve got the mouse in my hand I tend to navigate pages with the mouse, but sometimes I use the keys. It’s not the software, it’s the hardware. I am using a MacBook Pro, which was their large, high-end laptop. And it has little bitty arrow keys and no home, page up, page down, or end keys. I often wish it did. I’m not surprised a Mac would recognize them on a third party keyboard (it recognizes 2nd and third mouse buttons, even though the Mac-branded mice have only one button) but I AM a little surprised Mac makes a keyboard that has them. Anyway, much as I miss them, I’m not going to dangle an extra keyboard off my perfectly cromulent laptop just to get them. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/64 "2020-08-10T02:49:16Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > the meaning of the drop-down carat is a little different. It says “expand this (text) item”, it doesn’t say “open a list by clicking this”. Nobody ever explained the thing to me in words; so to me it does say “open a list by clicking this.” I mean, that’s what it does. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m not surprised a Mac would recognize them on a third party keyboard (it recognizes 2nd and third mouse buttons, even though the Mac-branded mice have only one button) but I AM a little surprised Mac makes a keyboard that has them OK, I wasn’t clear. It’s not an Apple-made keyboard, it’s a logitech; it’s just designed for a Mac layout (control-option-command.) I didn’t realize Apple-made keyboards are opposed to home and end keys. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/65 "2020-08-10T03:34:43Z")
It’s probably a little more than I mean. I’m just perplexed- it’s like my father having been completely fearless when it came to installing/removing/reconfiguring a computer’s hardware, but timid as a church mouse when it came to the software part. As much as I explained to him that there literally wasn’t anything he could break that couldn’t be remedied by FDISK and reinstallation of Windows, he never got any sort of confidence or curiosity about how to deal with the software part. Maybe it’s a learning difference versus the way I learn; I tend to be curious and click on stuff to see what it does. For example, did you know that if you click on your little avatar icon next to your username in a post, it says something like “5 posts in topic” with the little filter icon next to it. Clicking on that shows you all of YOUR posts in the topic. And doing the same thing for other users does the same thing. How nifty is that? I found that out by clicking around. And I tend to look for the commonalities between whatever I’m learning how to use and other software I’ve used, whether it’s a mobile app, some ancient software that I used a decade ago, or something else entirely. Stuff like hamburger icons, the little line thread navigation, clicking on avatars, etc… are all things similar to other stuff I’ve used, so it stands to reason that they’ll work the same here. It doesn’t bother me to not know exactly how to do something; I know I can figure it out in short order, so I don’t get agitated. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/66 "2020-08-10T05:14:28Z")
Yeah, your answer completely misses my point. You implied that I have no idea what’s going one when two posts later it’s clear that I misunderstood the verbal description of an icon, and was totally familiar with the thing. But now you are going on and lecturing us all about your superior learning style. I really recommend you take a step back and consider how your posts might read to other people. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/67 "2020-08-10T05:17:38Z")
Also, fwiw, I’m extremely good at breaking software. Which usually means making the application freeze up, and sometimes means crashing the computer. Which isn’t a permanent problem, of course, but it’s a nuisance. So I might be a little less fearless than you, because rebooting is tedious. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/68 "2020-08-10T06:18:39Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > OK, I wasn’t clear. It’s not an Apple-made keyboard, it’s a logitech; it’s just designed for a Mac layout (control-option-command.) I didn’t realize Apple-made keyboards are opposed to home and end keys. They aren’t. A full sized keyboard with a numpad has home and end keys. [![](https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/keyboards/magic-mouse-trackpad-keyboard-accessories.jpg) ](https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/keyboards/magic-mouse-trackpad-keyboard-accessories.jpg) There are also keyboard shortcuts if you have a keyboard with no home/end keys. [Two Mac keyboard shortcuts for missing Home and End keys - CNET](https://www.cnet.com/how-to/two-mac-keyboard-shortcuts-for-missing-home-and-end-keys/) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/69 "2020-08-10T11:46:58Z")
Thanks. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/70 "2020-08-10T12:15:03Z")
I am 58. I’ve been using video technology and computer technology for decades. While I am amused to play the crotchety old man the truth is that I embrace new technology and if I’m given enough time to become comfortable with it would be glad to use just about anything put in front of me. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/71 "2020-08-10T12:34:25Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > I am 58. I’ve been using video technology and computer technology for decades. While I am amused to play the crotchety old man the truth is that I embrace new technology and if I’m given enough time to become comfortable with it would be glad to use just about anything put in front of me I feel like referring to the [Four Yorkshiremen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE). All of this software is incredibly easy to learn and to use. I started on computers with punched cards and teletypes, these modern apps are Star Trek type stuff. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/72 "2020-08-10T16:18:57Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I really recommend you take a step back and consider how your posts might read to other people. That makes two of us, **bump**. It’s all in how it is said, not what is said. I wish I had your skill and comfort level. I’m working very hard to learn what I need to to get there. Perhaps filter out the scorn and offer to share your skills with the rest of us. You have a lot to offer. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/73 "2020-08-10T17:44:49Z")
Sorry about that! It’s not intended to be scorn, so much as being perplexed. I mean, I really want to understand how the thought processes work- if nothing else, it’ll be professionally useful to me at some point. But more than that, I’m curious. For me, it’s just not an issue to go to another piece of software, or version of the same software and figure out how to use it effectively. But it is to a lot of people I’ve noticed over the years, and I can’t really wrap my head around it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/74 "2020-08-10T18:03:01Z")
So, are there any changes in your life that YOU find stressful? Relationship break ups? Moving? New job? New boss? Having to buy new clothes? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/75 "2020-08-10T18:16:44Z")
Was this actually stressful in the same way as any of those, save maybe buying new clothes? I have to admit that buying new clothes has never struck me as stressful. Maybe a bit annoying, or irritating if it costs me more than I wanted it to, or if I can’t find the clothes in the size/color I want, but stressful is giving it far more credit than it’s due for me. The other four, sure. Those are stressful things. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/76 "2020-08-10T18:19:37Z")
See, and I really can’t wrap my head around the idea that you don’t understand that everyone isn’t you. But I can really - my husband is a very good bowler and I used to bowl with him. I say _used to_ because I stopped- and the reason I stopped is because he would get mad when he told me to do something differently and I wasn’t able to. Meanwhile, to this day he will call me at work to tell me the printer isn’t working - but he never saw the connection.Probably still doesn’t. Not everyone has the same talents or learning style , and while I’m sure you’re correct that it’s not an issue for you to figure out how to use new software, I’m also sure that people who can’t have abilities that you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/77 "2020-08-10T18:21:45Z")
I doubt anyone cares as much about their relationship with the straight dope message board as much as they care about their relationship with their romantic partner, so I doubt it. I was just trying to gauge whether you find change stressful in general. I mean, I don’t find having a new boss at all stressful unless there are specific issues with the boss, actually. Like, last time it happened I got out from under a difficult boss, and I texted a bunch of friends to say “we were re-org’d, and I’m thrilled”. How about smaller stuff that you find stressful? New cleaning lady “hides” all your stuff? Moved to a different cube and have all new people around you? You favorite peanut butter is reformulated and you need to find a new brand of peanut butter? New puppy in the house chews your stuff and piddles in inconvenient places? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/78 "2020-08-10T19:45:01Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > > [@Voyager](#): > > > > My biggest complaint is how unintuitive it is to get to the last post in a thread. > > Display the thread. Press the “End” key. > > Before I had thought about the consequences of an infinite scroll UI model I too was surprised to find live hotkeys in the UI that weren’t Ctrl- or Alt-. But if you look at it as app, not a web page, it makes sense that any of the ancillary keys on the keyboard do things, just as Home & End do things in Word, Excel, or Visual Studio. Right. Very intuitive compared to “go to last post.” A better way which doesn’t require taking your hand off the mouse is clicking on the time to last post right above the reply and alert buttons on the right. I haven’t used the End button in years. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/79 "2020-08-10T19:50:57Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Now see, to me that is intuitive. Just click on the bottom of the slider bar. That’s how I do it. But note that there is a date and two times for each post - the hours since the post (I think) the date of the post and the time since the last post, which is under the slider bar. Which has precious little to do with the last post. Especially since so many applications use “\>” for next and “\>\>” for last. If they put “Last: 3m ago” then it would have been intuitive. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519/80 "2020-08-10T21:25:43Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I have to admit that buying new clothes has never struck me as stressful. I suspect you can find clothes that fit, and that common clothing materials don’t make you itch. You probably also don’t react badly to the lighting in many stores, or to the chemicals outgassing from some of the goods in some of them. Now try to imagine that you have to find something to wear to an event: but almost none of the clothes considered suitable for it are shaped the way you’re shaped, most of the few that might fit are made out of a material that makes you itch, the lighting in the store gives you a headache, and the air in the store makes you feel like you’re going to start choking any minute. Oh yes, and you can’t really afford to be buying clothes in the first place. – if that can make you get any sort of gut feeling for why clothes shopping can be stressful for some people, maybe the practice at getting into somebody else’s head will help you understand why people find it stressful to use portions of the limited time they have available to try to figure out things that for them are not intuitive at all, and that instead make them mentally itch and don’t fit the way their heads are shaped? > [@Voyager](#): > > Very intuitive compared to “go to last post.” > [@Voyager](#): > > If they put “Last: 3m ago” then it would have been intuitive. I think you may have missed my earlier point entirely. (Post #51, according to the box that pops up if you click on the date at the top of the post. Which I had to be told, in one thread or another, because it wouldn’t have occured to me that the date was something to click on.) Those things feel intuitive _to you_. They are not necessarily intuitive to anyone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/age-related-computer-comprehension-problems/917519.md?page=5)