# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D: LMD - Season 4 thread (Open Spoilers for aired episodes) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930 "2017-01-12T02:31:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/181 "2017-04-21T02:58:46Z")
My goodness, that was good! I was wracking my brain to figure out who was in the cage, and somehow didn’t come up with Trip. What a welcome surprise!! I hope they find a way to keep him… This whole framework business has gotten delightfully messy, with Mack’s daughter and such. I can’t see it just shut down in the end. Mace really grew on me, starting right around when he was exposed as a fake. It was really wonderful to see him go out in a blaze of heroism. He was a fake hero in the real world, but a real hero in a fake world. So beautiful. I’m loving every scene with Ward, too. Such a great way to bring him “back”. Loved Fitz’s crisis of conscience, Gemma’s reaction to Mack’s daughter causing her to question what “real” means, Radcliffe’s regret, Aida’s offering up Lincoln to Skye, Coulson going after his student, May’s change of heart. EVERYONE got such great moments. A really great character episode, even for those who are acting out of their usual character. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/182 "2017-04-21T04:39:01Z")
AIDA is like the One Ring, telling Daisy that she can get her heart’s desire. She just needs to accept this simulation as her new reality. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/183 "2017-04-24T12:34:12Z")
I was on vacation last week so just caught up now. Good episode, I especially liked how they set up May’s turn with the children. It held together well. I wonder if Daisy’s terragenisis will work the same way it worked IRL, and Daisy’s smile just as the husk cocoon covered her face was perfect. Glad we got to see Trip again, he was one that I had hoped for. Coulson is coming back to his own leadership personality, telling May to shoot or help. I still don’t understand how much control Aida/Ophelia has over the Framework. Why doesn’t she just set things up so Daisy, Jemma, and the rest can’t do things? I’m also not clear whether Aida and Ophelia are the same personality or have they split. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/184 "2017-04-24T13:24:48Z")
Forgive my horrible memory…but who is Trip? Is he the one that died back in season 1 or 2 when the Terragenesis crystals first made their appearance? Daisy lived and got her powers, so did Spikey-girl, but Trip didn’t make it? Speaking of, how is May not dead from the crystal she just busted open to give Daisy her powers? Or did they explain that away some time and I just forgot? Another great episode overall. Love that Mace died. I mean, I hate it cuz I love Mace. But his death means so much so the characters (they’re going to wake up without him), the plot (It might have turned May!) and the audience (People DO die IRL if they die in the framework), that it was just perfect. Such a great scene too. I don’t understand how Fitz’s daddy issues are a regret. IIRC Fitz was always sad that he couldn’t impress his father, but realized that he was a better person for it and his father was a bit coo-coo bananas. Where’s the actual regret? Not having a relationship with him? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/185 "2017-04-24T13:41:12Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Forgive my horrible memory…but who is Trip? Is he the one that died back in season 1 or 2 when the Terragenesis crystals first made their appearance? Daisy lived and got her powers, so did Spikey-girl, but Trip didn’t make it? > > Speaking of, how is May not dead from the crystal she just busted open to give Daisy her powers? Or did they explain that away some time and I just forgot? > > Another great episode overall. Love that Mace died. I mean, I hate it cuz I love Mace. But his death means so much so the characters (they’re going to wake up without him), the plot (It might have turned May!) and the audience (People DO die IRL if they die in the framework), that it was just perfect. Such a great scene too. > > I don’t understand how Fitz’s daddy issues are a regret. IIRC Fitz was always sad that he couldn’t impress his father, but realized that he was a better person for it and his father was a bit coo-coo bananas. Where’s the actual regret? Not having a relationship with him? Yes, Trip was the SHIELD agent whose grandfather was in the Howling Commandos & still had a suitcase full of 1940’s tech. He was with Skye & Raina in the Kree temple, and died when they went through terragenesis. He “didn’t make it” because he wasn’t Inhuman, while Raina and Skye were. The crystals were explained back in the season with Skye’s mother. The original crystals are pure, and don’t affect humans at all. But when the Inhumans tried to manufacture their own, they were contaminated with the casing material the Kree used, which for some reason kills humans but has no affect on Inhumans. Note that the crystals that Hydra had are pure blue, while the ones back in Season 2 had black inclusions in them. On Fitz, I think that was exactly it - he wanted to maintain _some_ relationship with his father. But in the Framework the only way to maintain such a relationship was to become what his father wanted him to be. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/186 "2017-04-24T14:03:05Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I still don’t understand how much control Aida/Ophelia has over the Framework. Why doesn’t she just set things up so Daisy, Jemma, and the rest can’t do things? I’m also not clear whether Aida and Ophelia are the same personality or have they split. We saw AIDA walking around among the sleeping bodies of S.H.I.E.L.D. while Madame Hydra was in the Framework, so it’s pretty clear that the two are in fact separate entities. **amarinth** put it best - Madame Hydra started out as AIDA but now has some additional human experiences and probably human emotions overlaid on top of her underlying (lack of) personality. How much control AIDA has over her simulated counterpart and, indeed, the entire Framework remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/187 "2017-04-24T14:32:59Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > On Fitz, I think that was exactly it - he wanted to maintain _some_ relationship with his father. But in the Framework the only way to maintain such a relationship was to become what his father wanted him to be. Because the Framework is _evil_. Don’t forget that - while Ophelia may say she’s just giving people what they desire, the world she’s created is inherently malicious because of the Darkhold’s influence. At least, that’s my take on things. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/188 "2017-04-24T14:43:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because the Framework is _evil_. Don’t forget that - while Ophelia may say she’s just giving people what they desire, the world she’s created is inherently malicious because of the Darkhold’s influence. At least, that’s my take on things. True. While she claimed all the changes are purely the natural result of her changing everyone’s regrets, it’s not coincidence that she wound up head of Hydra and the only human she actually likes wound up her devoted servant & lover. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/189 "2017-04-24T14:49:18Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Yes, Trip was the SHIELD agent whose grandfather was in the Howling Commandos & still had a suitcase full of 1940’s tech. He was with Skye & Raina in the Kree temple, and died when they went through terragenesis. He “didn’t make it” because he wasn’t Inhuman, while Raina and Skye were. > > The crystals were explained back in the season with Skye’s mother. The original crystals are pure, and don’t affect humans at all. But when the Inhumans tried to manufacture their own, they were contaminated with the casing material the Kree used, which for some reason kills humans but has no affect on Inhumans. Note that the crystals that Hydra had are pure blue, while the ones back in Season 2 had black inclusions in them. > > On Fitz, I think that was exactly it - he wanted to maintain _some_ relationship with his father. But in the Framework the only way to maintain such a relationship was to become what his father wanted him to be. Thank you! I guess my memory isn’t AS bad as I thought. So, since Trip is back, are we taking bets on Bobbi and Hunter making an appearance? ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/190 "2017-04-24T14:53:48Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > “Lies. That’s all she gave us. Beaten to within an inch of her life. _Nevertheless, she persisted._” > > I find it hard to believe that turn of phrase is a coincidence. Oh, there’s no coincidence. Between that line and “We’re going to make our society great again” in the previous episode, they’re giving Fitz all the connect-to-the-_real_-real-world lines. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/191 "2017-04-24T15:09:31Z")
So, since we’re talking about this episode again - I was confused when Coulson said that Ward and Mace weren’t believing Jemma because they don’t have real-world memories. But, while Ward is completely part of the Framework, Mace was brought in with his real self (and then very cooly given his regret of not actually being an Inhuman). Jemma should have known that, right? So she should have spent some time getting him to remember, like she and Daisy/Skye are doing with the others? Or was the end bit showing him dead in the real world our first indication that he had been caught also? I don’t remember if he was on the raid that got everyone else captured. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/192 "2017-04-24T15:36:52Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Jemma should have known that, right? So she should have spent some time getting him to remember, like she and Daisy/Skye are doing with the others? The only reason Coulson was able to remember things from the real world was that Project Tahiti rewired his brain. None of the other real people in the Framework are like that, so while they might be convinced eventually, they aren’t going to be nearly as easy as Coulson. > [@Folacin](#): > > Or was the end bit showing him dead in the real world our first indication that he had been caught also? I don’t remember if he was on the raid that got everyone else captured. No, we knew that Mace was captured and hooked into the Framework. This is the first time we saw someone who was alive in the real world who died in the Framework, and that resulted in their real world death. We’ve been told that this happens, but never saw it. Radcliffe was killed by Aida as he was put into the Framework for good; Agnes died a natural death in the real world as she was being put in. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/193 "2017-04-26T12:40:01Z")
“I can help you buy some furniture” - OK, they’re just screwing with us now. I’m somewhat disappointed in what Project Looking Glass turned out to be. Aida wants to be a real girl so she can overcome her “Don’t kill anyone” programming? Apart from that though, I’m definitely enjoying this arc. They’ve done a good job showing Phil, Mac & May revert to their true natures. I’m assuming Fitz at some point will have to decide whether to shoot (flesh) Aida or Jemma. They’ve definitely left a ton of room for Fitz to question/torture over himself over his dark side behavior next season too. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/194 "2017-04-26T14:22:16Z")
I’m guessing evil Fitz gets turned into a real boy too, and we’ll have evil Fitz vs. good Fitz in the next arc. I wonder who else might come over. Ward? Tripp? Hope? I loved Coulsen’s “Agent of Shield” speech along with Ward finding out he’s dead on the other side. Did anyone else catch Bill Paxton on one of the screens at the TV station as a fallen hero? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/195 "2017-04-26T14:44:36Z")
Good points, though it seems unlikely that an AI that only ever existed in the Framework would be able to function in the Real World. And having Hope come over is too much of a “just so” story. Besides, if we’re sticking with the “Everything the Darkhold produces is evil” theory, then you wouldn’t want to have a daughter who was built by it. Of course, this does open the possibility of Ghost Rider’s return. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/196 "2017-04-27T02:44:12Z")
I love the idea of Ward coming back, but this time it would be a “good” Ward, who met Hand instead of Garrett. Could Daisy love \*this \*Ward? Trip coming back would be nice too. I wish they could give Agnes the body that Aida/Ophelia is making but since Agnes is dead in both the real world and the Framework, I don’t think that could happen. I don’t know if Aida wants to be a real person, or the Darkhold wants to be a real person, just in the personification of Aida. The fakeout of the real world drilling rig and the Framework one reminded me of Silence of the Lambs when they raided the wrong house. In addition to the furniture line, they used “alternative facts”. I missed the tribute to Bill Paxton, I’ll have to look online for screen grabs. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/197 "2017-04-27T05:55:18Z")
I was wrong about AIDA not going into the Framework. She goes in and even uses the same UI as everyone else. It was strongly implied that Madame Hydra is, in fact, her avatar therein as they showed her emerging back into the real world when Madame Hydra lost consciousness after being flung through a window and down a building by Quake. The question now is what happens to the avatar when AIDA isn’t around in the Framework? Does AIDA directly control Ophelia or does the latter have an independent existence, where AIDA is just along for the ride? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/198 "2017-04-27T15:54:41Z")
Nitpick: she wasn’t thrown out of a window, she was thrown out of an _elevator_ - the exact same elevator from THAT scene in _Winter Soldier,_ which is very cool. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/199 "2017-04-27T17:25:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Nitpick: she wasn’t thrown out of a window, she was thrown out of an _elevator_ - the exact same elevator from THAT scene in _Winter Soldier,_ which is very cool. I would have loved a “Before we get started, does anyone want to get out?” reference. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930/200 "2017-04-28T03:48:15Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Nitpick: she wasn’t thrown out of a window, she was thrown out of an _elevator_ - the exact same elevator from THAT scene in _Winter Soldier,_ which is very cool. No wonder that place looked familiar. I agree that it is very cool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-lmd-season-4-thread-open-spoilers-for-aired-episodes/776930.md?page=11)