# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S01E06: F.Z.Z.T **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 6, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214 "2013-11-06T03:55:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/101 "2013-11-09T10:23:18Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Now for some math. If we assume a 100kg man, equal charges on the man and ground, and a 1 meter float for simplicity… coulombs law says that to exert the 100 N of force to keep him aloft, Nitpick: to keep 100kg aloft in Earth’s gravity would need close to 1000 N (~980 N). Not that the numerics are terribly important to the situation… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/102 "2013-11-09T11:56:19Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Exactly. No one could possibly expect that a show called _Marvel’s Agents of Shield_ would have anything to do with Marvel. > > Why, if it actually had something to do with Marvel, the show would start with that comic-book-page-flipping intro that Marvel uses on all their media. > > Who could possibly expect something Marvel-related, when they’ve done so much to disassociate the show from Marvel? > > edit: Heck, thank goodness they didn’t toss in actual Marvel characters – like, say Scorch or Graviton – that would have _really_ confused people! You’d think the studios couldn’t get away with this kind of false advertising. But I watched _Men in Black III_ last summer and despite the explicit promise at the beginning of the movie that this was a Columbia picture, there wasn’t a single scene set in South America. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/103 "2013-11-09T12:21:06Z")
Oye, we did see the Columbia being launched. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/104 "2013-11-09T16:54:37Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I don’t think Scorch is actually a pre-existing Marvel character–though I do agree with you. [Obscure, but he’s a Marvel character.](http://www.comicbookmovie.com/agents_of_shield/news/?a=88941) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/105 "2013-11-09T16:58:57Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Exactly. No one could possibly expect that a show called _Marvel’s Agents of Shield_ would have anything to do with Marvel. Meh. For most of America Marvel means the Avengers series of tie-in movies. Period. Not the comics. Comics sell less than 100,000 per issue these days. That’s not even rounding error for a network tv show. And tv ratings are rounding error for billion-dollar global franchises. It’s true that probably every last one of those 100,000 are on the Internet insisting that their version of Marvel is the only possible one. But nobody in Hollywood cares, because you’re going to watch just to be able to grump. Seriously, your complaint is that the tv series hasn’t come up with a superpower than no character in comics history ever had? Yep, that’s exactly what’s wrong with the show. From the studio’s point of view, they get to say: we told you so. Win/win for them. The fanboys just look even more pathetic than usual. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/106 "2013-11-09T17:15:49Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > … Seriously, your complaint is that the tv series hasn’t come up with a superpower than no character in comics history ever had? Yep, that’s exactly what’s wrong with the show. Your reading comprehension seems to be as equally bad as your ability to notice that _Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD_ is drawing from Marvel comics. I never made that complaint. It has utterly not relation to any complaint I’ve made about this show. I don’t recall anyone in this thread – or in several other threads on this show – having made that complaint. Your ignorance is showing even more: Marvel _already has_ multiple versions of its characters. Fans accept them just fine. The Marvel movies draw heavily from _both_ the “Marvel Universe” continuity and the Ultimates continuity. Once again, no one has said that this show needs to follow their vision of Marvel. It’s not the “fanboys” who you’re making looking pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/107 "2013-11-09T19:35:15Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Exactly. No one could possibly expect that a show called _Marvel’s Agents of Shield_ would have anything to do with Marvel. > > Why, if it actually had something to do with Marvel, the show would start with that comic-book-page-flipping intro that Marvel uses on all their media. > > Who could possibly expect something Marvel-related, when they’ve done so much to disassociate the show from Marvel? > > edit: Heck, thank goodness they didn’t toss in actual Marvel characters – like, say Scorch or Graviton – that would have _really_ confused people! While you make a point here, I would say that whenever Marvel introduced a new comic title or character to their universe, they didn’t necessarily drag in every other big-name Marvel character to the book. Sure, there are crossovers and references to other Marvel characters, but someone like, say, Moon Knight could be a Marvel title and rarely, if ever, cross over into the mainstream Marvel universe. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/108 "2013-11-09T22:14:08Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > And Coulson did look pretty stricken when he saw Skye’s orphanage sheet in the “what are you hiding” scene a few weeks back. Almost guilty… I saw this as equal parts “… but we’re the _good_ guys…” and an understanding that SHIELD doesn’t bury stuff unless it really needs to get freaking buried, and Skye trying to unearth this information is not going to end well. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/109 "2013-11-10T05:56:12Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > While you make a point here, I would say that whenever Marvel introduced a new comic title or character to their universe, they didn’t necessarily drag in every other big-name Marvel character to the book. Sure, there are crossovers and references to other Marvel characters, but someone like, say, Moon Knight could be a Marvel title and rarely, if ever, cross over into the mainstream Marvel universe. The problem with this show isn’t that they’re not stuffing it full of every minor cameo they can, just to ring the fans’ bells. It is that they’re not actually making any real use of their selling point for the entire series – that it is tied-in to the Marvel movies. The plot of this most recent episode was not reliant on the movies. It could have worked perfectly fine as a Star Trek episode, or as a Stargate episode, or Warehouse 13 episode, or any other of an interchangable generic sci-fi shows. Having a Chitauri hat in the episode is _not_ linking it to the Marvel movies. It’s a cheap throwaway. If they want to draw in the Movie cachet they’ve been promoting since this show was announced, they need to either give us something that expands on the movies, or maybe even affects the movies. The Chitauri were ciphers as faceless mooks in the _Avengers_ movie; they could’ve given us some of their backstory here. Instead, we got a hat. Maybe the upcoming _Thor: Dark World_ tie-in will work better. Really, I think their problem is that the writers seem to be approaching episodes with a checklist: need a mention of Coulson’s mystery, need a moment for May to imply her history, need some Fitz + Simmons interaction, blah blah blah fishcakes. Ends up with an episode stringing random character interaction together with the thinest of veneers of setting. The setting, though, is the entire premise of this show; they’d be better off postulating an event or situation taken from that setting, and seeing how their characters react to it. Instead of a Chitauri hat, maybe one of the hundreds of Chitauri mooks is still on the loose, for example. And the faceless shadowy enemy organization really isn’t working for them. For all that everyone keeps mentioning Whedonisms, this show could really use a Big Bad of the season. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/110 "2013-11-10T15:32:07Z")
The show is Agents of SHIELD, not Avengers: The Series. It is about agents of SHIELD. It was always going to be about agents of SHIELD. It should not be about anything other than agents of SHIELD. Iron Man doesn’t need to be about Asgard. Thor doesn’t need to be about WWII. Captain America doesn’t need to be about the junction between superscience and business. And Agents of SHIELD doesn’t need to be about superheroes. They all live in the same universe, yes, but they all cover different ground. You want the show to be something it’s not, something it was never supposed to be, something it never pretended it was. The problem lies with you, not the show. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/111 "2013-11-10T16:19:59Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The problem with this show isn’t that they’re not stuffing it full of every minor cameo they can, just to ring the fans’ bells. It is that they’re not actually making any real use of their selling point for the entire series – that it is tied-in to the Marvel movies. > > The plot of this most recent episode was not reliant on the movies. It could have worked perfectly fine as a Star Trek episode, or as a Stargate episode, or Warehouse 13 episode, or any other of an interchangable generic sci-fi shows. Having a Chitauri hat in the episode is _not_ linking it to the Marvel movies. It’s a cheap throwaway. > > If they want to draw in the Movie cachet they’ve been promoting since this show was announced, they need to either give us something that expands on the movies, or maybe even affects the movies. The Chitauri were ciphers as faceless mooks in the _Avengers_ movie; they could’ve given us some of their backstory here. Instead, we got a hat. Maybe the upcoming _Thor: Dark World_ tie-in will work better. > > Really, I think their problem is that the writers seem to be approaching episodes with a checklist: need a mention of Coulson’s mystery, need a moment for May to imply her history, need some Fitz + Simmons interaction, blah blah blah fishcakes. Ends up with an episode stringing random character interaction together with the thinest of veneers of setting. > > The setting, though, is the entire premise of this show; they’d be better off postulating an event or situation taken from that setting, and seeing how their characters react to it. Instead of a Chitauri hat, maybe one of the hundreds of Chitauri mooks is still on the loose, for example. > > And the faceless shadowy enemy organization really isn’t working for them. For all that everyone keeps mentioning Whedonisms, this show could really use a Big Bad of the season. I actually agree with most of this. It has been far too generic. I don’t watch any of those other sci-fi shows and I still think that the encounters have been bland and silly. I do see the beginnings of an arc to the season. Placing the shows that create character first before the Big Challenge makes sense. Look at a show like Flashforward. There the Big Idea started the show and drew people in. After which you got a dozen shows about developing character without explaining what people came in to see. Really dull characters. So the audience left. And nobody bothered to watch the last show where, so I heard, they got to the point. I was gone by then too. The point here is character and ideas. Pulling in minor names from the forgotten pages of comics doesn’t help that; it would make it worse. They are creating their own pocket universe. With the handicap that anything cool has to be saved to make an extra $50,000,000 for a forthcoming movie. That may not be overcomeable. And creating a set-up to be paid off in a movie rather than on the series is death. To be honest, I don’t think they can pull it off. But if it fails, it will fail for those real-world reasons not, as Kamino Neko says, for something it never pretended to be. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/112 "2013-11-10T16:59:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The point here is character and ideas. Pulling in minor names from the forgotten pages of comics doesn’t help that; it would make it worse. How would the first episode have suffered if the guy they were looking for was named Carl Lucas instead of Mike Peterson? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/113 "2013-11-10T18:29:22Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > How would the first episode have suffered if the guy they were looking for was named Carl Lucas instead of Mike Peterson? It’s equivalent to the problem that Marvel (and DC) have always had with their various universes. Standard Marvel continuity is [Earth 616](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_616). I’ve seen numbers for the [Marvel Cinematic Universe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe) but I don’t think they are official. The universes need to be internally consistent. With multiple writers and editors, anomalies creep in. Action overlaps or contradicts other plotlines. Time and sequencing get confused. After a while only the coriest core of fans can keep things straight or care to. And then there’s a reboot that offends everyone. It’s clear that the Cinematic Universe is not the universe of the comic books. The Marvel powers don’t want it to be. The movie fans don’t want it to be. There’s no good reason to bring Earth-616 baggage into the Cinematic Universe except to please a tiny minority. And you can’t please that tiny minority because they’ll complain of the inevitable differences that evolve. Much better to start fresh and tell people: if you see the movies and the tv show you will have it all. You don’t have to know or care about anything else. Which is exactly what they’ve been doing. Do the comics fans get screwed by this? No, not really. They’re plenty used to various Earths in the Marvel multiverse. This is just one more. And yet they complain constantly. Nobody should care. Go buy an action figure or something. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/114 "2013-11-10T19:13:13Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Iron Man doesn’t need to be about Asgard. Thor doesn’t need to be about WWII. Captain America doesn’t need to be about the junction between superscience and business. And Agents of SHIELD doesn’t need to be about superheroes. > > They all live in the same universe, yes, but they all cover different ground. Captain America featured Tony Stark’s father, showed the prototype for Coulson’s flying car, and the villain was using superscience based on an Asgardian artifact. Thor mentioned Tony Stark (when the Asgardian armor arrived) and had an oblique reference to The Hulk. Which is to say that the Marvelverse has been pretty good about keeping things cohesive without being intrusive, and I think the show has done as well as any other product. Comic geeks can make the connections, while sci-fi fans can still enjoy the show. If you want full on costumed hero action,\*\* the Arrow\*\* just added Black Canary and is doing a back-door pilot for **the Flash** later this month. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/115 "2013-11-10T20:08:47Z")
I was just about to mention Arrow. I’m still watching season 1 on Netflix, but they’ve had the Huntress and Deadshot and a whole host of more minor characters from the comics. No prior knowledge of them is assumed, so I really don’t see how it hurts anything for those who aren’t fans of the comics. And for those who are, it makes it that much more fun. As far as the whole “the show is what it was always intended to be” argument, so what? Whatever they’re trying to do with the show, it’d be more fun for comic book fans if they included more stuff from the comics. And I really don’t see how it’d worsen it for anyone else, as long as they weren’t just assuming the audience already knows who, say, The Fixer is. That said, it’s improved a bit since episode 2, so I’m sticking with it for at least a bit longer. ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Albert\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albert_Rose)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/116 "2013-11-10T21:17:54Z")
I’d still like to see some Marvel characters in the show. That’s not a problem with me. The show doesn’t seem to be going in the direction of “Let’s bring in some Marvels!” That’s not a problem with the show. It would be nice for me if the show did include Carol Danvers or Jessica Drew or Jarvis the Butler\*, etc., but I’m not predicting that that will happen. I’m not sure why this is an issue. I like the show. I like the stories, I like the characters. More Marvels would be great, no Marvels would be great. \*Yes, I used their civilian names instead of their Superhero identities on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/117 "2013-11-10T21:59:05Z")
I’m watching it right now so thoughts and impressions… … Can we get past the “cool kid with all the squares” trope with the brunette and the others? Everything about her story is _tired_, more tired than a single mom at 10pm. … I like the cute geek girl. “It’s science, I must dissect something!” … Wait - the SHIELD-mobile is a station wagon? That’s even lamer than the flying car (which, apparently, is at least canon.) … Can we get rid of Fitz? Please? … The actor playing the firefighter did a pretty good job with his small role. … Uh, oh - they actually pulled me in. Simmons is in danger! ☹ (They did this a lot to me in _Buffy_ too, with Willow.) … Were any mice harmed in the making of this episode? 😉 … Dayum! An actual argument! (Between the two geeks.) Nice that somebody on this show has a human side. … Sigh, the old “hit them on the head and knock them out” routine. … Coulson can’t stop smirking even when he’s yelling. … Kiss her, you fool! (Coulson/May scene.) And… done! You know, this show is getting better. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/118 "2013-11-10T22:57:25Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > \… Kiss her, you fool! (Coulson/May scene.)\ When someone is nicknamed “the Cavalry”, it is usually **not** a good idea to give them an impromptu kiss. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/119 "2013-11-10T23:26:15Z")
Sometimes you just gotta say “what the fuck.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214/120 "2013-11-10T23:28:34Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > someone like, say, Moon Knight could be a Marvel title and rarely, if ever, cross over into the mainstream Marvel universe. You mean the same Moon Knight that used to be in the West Coast Avengers? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e06-f-z-z-t/673214.md?page=7)