# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S01E16: End of the Beginning (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132 "2014-04-02T02:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/61 "2014-04-03T17:52:49Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > The effective buildup of tension in that scene was all due to a performance that Dourif had going on with just his eyes. You need an excellent actor to pull that off. I agree 100%, I don’t know of anyone else who could have pulled off that scene like Dourif did. The double-blind plan was kinda wonky but after Skye created it, she stayed in the electromagnetic proof beehive till they caught who they think is the Clairvoyant. Her knowledge should have been safe from him if he is actually psychic. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/62 "2014-04-03T19:35:48Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Clairvoyance as an ability to see the future would not require actual mind reading. But, they were still acknowledging that “The Clairvoyant” might not truly be Clairvoyant but, rather, getting information through other means. Actually, precognition is the ability to see the future. Clairvoyance is the ability to see events that have happened but are beyond the normal range of the senses. So a clairvoyant could tell what you were saying even if you were a thousand miles away but he couldn’t tell what you were going to say before you said it. And neither a clairvoyant or a precognitive could tell what you’re thinking; that’s telepathy. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/63 "2014-04-03T20:15:20Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Seemed a waste of Brad Dourif. > [@Cayuga](#): > > A complete and total waste. I didn’t even realize it was him. And I was trying to figure out who it was, and if it was an actor or just a mannequin. To me that indicates there’s more to the role than what we saw. Not only do the usual Conservation of Guest Stars physics apply (any recognizable actor has a significant role in events), but it is a comic-book based show where characters being killed, cremated, and the ashes sprinkled on the sun’s surface doesn’t mean they won’t reappear. All him getting fatally shot in front of reliable witnesses really means is that his next lines will be preceded by “but - dot dot dot - I saw you die!” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/64 "2014-04-03T22:13:38Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > To me that indicates there’s more to the role than what we saw. Not only do the usual Conservation of Guest Stars physics apply (any recognizable actor has a significant role in events), but it is a comic-book based show where characters being killed, cremated, and the ashes sprinkled on the sun’s surface doesn’t mean they won’t reappear. All him getting fatally shot in front of reliable witnesses really means is that his next lines will be preceded by “but - dot dot dot - I saw you die!” Maybe it was a double-blind\* by the network. If the name Brad Dourif is revealed before the episode - something highly likely - then everybody will assume that he’s got to be playing a major role. So having him do a wordless cameo makes the character a bigger deal than it would be if some unknown had been slathered with makeup. \*Using double-blind as a magic meaning-free word as the episode did. Double-blind is the new paradigm. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/65 "2014-04-03T22:57:15Z")
I don’t think they have that kind of money to throw around. No, Nash is going to show up again. Especially if Ward is a baddie. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/66 "2014-04-04T01:17:45Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > All him getting fatally shot in front of reliable witnesses really means is that his next lines will be preceded by “but - dot dot dot - I saw you die!” That’s what I expected, but I wasn’t so sure by episode’s end. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/67 "2014-04-04T03:49:56Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > If the name Brad Dourif is revealed before the episode - something highly likely - then everybody will assume that he’s got to be playing a major role. So having him do a wordless cameo makes the character a bigger deal than it would be if some unknown had been slathered with makeup. And he was in the opening credits. There’s more to come from Nash. As the _Buffy_ people always say, “Trust Joss.” Though that sometimes requires you to trust that Joss will kill a major character for the hell of it, or bring in a “big” (in the genre he’s working in) actor for a Captain Christopher Pike in _The Menagerie_ role. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNelson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@SuperNelson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNelson)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/68 "2014-04-04T12:18:08Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And he was in the opening credits. There’s more to come from Nash. As the _Buffy_ people always say, “Trust Joss.” Though that sometimes requires you to trust that Joss will kill a major character for the hell of it, or bring in a “big” (in the genre he’s working in) actor for a Captain Christopher Pike in _The Menagerie_ role. And the _Buffy_ people know, that might be the same episode a prominent actor is listed in the credits. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/69 "2014-04-04T15:55:09Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I take it as another demonstration of The Clairvoyant’s “power”. The plan was always to have Ward kill Nash and the words he “spoke” were carefully designed to make Ward do what he did. > > Anyone who’s seen enough of The Mentalist knows the type. 😉 I swear, if Malcolm McDowell shows up… ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/70 "2014-04-04T16:15:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Actually, precognition is the ability to see the future. Clairvoyance is the ability to see events that have happened but are beyond the normal range of the senses. So a clairvoyant could tell what you were saying even if you were a thousand miles away but he couldn’t tell what you were going to say before you said it. And neither a clairvoyant or a precognitive could tell what you’re thinking; that’s telepathy. Of course, an especially clever villain might call himself the Clairvoyant when he is really nothing of the kind. I mean, why reveal your talent (and implicitly, your weakness) in your name? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/71 "2014-04-04T16:23:21Z")
I doubt that there actually is an individual named the Clairvoyant at work at all. The Nash computer voice referred to “we” a couple of times during its spiel, and MCU already has a precedent for a false figurehead baddy in Iron Man 3. I can see this being the case again, here. “The Clairvoyant” is likely to be a group of people. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/72 "2014-04-04T16:33:31Z")
And I have a strong feeling about who. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/73 "2014-04-04T17:19:28Z")
One possibility of casting an actor like Dourif in an apparent non-acting role like Nash is they’re planning on using him in some flashback scenes. So Nash may be dead now but Dourif may appear again in the series in a more active role. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/74 "2014-04-04T17:21:56Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > To me that indicates there’s more to the role than what we saw. Not only do the usual Conservation of Guest Stars physics apply (any recognizable actor has a significant role in events), but it is a comic-book based show where characters being killed, cremated, and the ashes sprinkled on the sun’s surface doesn’t mean they won’t reappear. All him getting fatally shot in front of reliable witnesses really means is that his next lines will be preceded by “but - dot dot dot - I saw you die!” Oh, right, like a television series would ever be taken seriously by its viewers if they brought back a character who everybody had seen die right on camera. Oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/75 "2014-04-04T17:29:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > an actor like Dourif in an apparent non-acting role like Nash It wasn’t a non-acting role. It was an acting role that required a top-notch excellent actor. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/76 "2014-04-04T18:37:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Oh, right, like a television series would ever be taken seriously by its viewers if they brought back a character who everybody had seen die right on camera. > > Oh wait… I see what you did there, and I will avenge you! ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/77 "2014-04-04T19:56:07Z")
Whether The Clairvoyant is a single person or a group of people who have infiltrated SHIELD, I’m betting that he/she/they is/are part of the bad guys in _Captain America: The Winter Soldier._ The remnants of HYDRA that infiltrated SHIELD and world governments after WWII. I haven’t seen the movie, but someone I work with decided that the plot needed to be spoiled for everyone within earshot. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/78 "2014-04-05T05:57:02Z")
Was I the only one that saw Nash/Clairvoyant(?) as a pretty clear allusion to MODOK?–the chair and the bigger head? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/79 "2014-04-05T10:17:18Z")
After watching The Winter Soldier last night…what in the HELL are they going to do with the show?? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/80 "2014-04-05T15:27:26Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > After watching The Winter Soldier last night…what in the HELL are they going to do with the show?? Gee, I don’t know. Since the movie has only been out for two days and most people haven’t seen it yet, I’m sure they-- just like me-- sure do appreciate now knowing the end of the movie features a major status quo change for SHIELD. THANKS. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132.md?page=5)