# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S01E16: End of the Beginning (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 2, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132 "2014-04-02T02:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/81 "2014-04-05T15:28:52Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Gee, I don’t know. Since the movie has only been out for two days and most people haven’t seen it yet, I’m sure they-- just like me-- sure do appreciate now knowing the end of the movie features a major status quo change for SHIELD. THANKS. Oh Christ, haven’t you read a review? I think my statement was generic enough that you complaining it’s a spoiler is nothing but whining. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/82 "2014-04-05T15:35:06Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Gee, I don’t know. Since the movie has only been out for two days and most people haven’t seen it yet, I’m sure they-- just like me-- sure do appreciate now knowing the end of the movie features a major status quo change for SHIELD. THANKS. The TV show is nothing but a commercial for the movies. That’s not a spoiler: that’s what they told us over and over before the show started. It does not have an independent existence. Anything that happens in the movies will be reflected in the show and if that doesn’t mean major changes then what the hell is the point of either? How can any of that be a spoiler when it is the show’s underlying _purpose_? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/83 "2014-04-05T15:35:37Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Oh Christ, haven’t you read a review? I think my statement was generic enough that you complaining it’s a spoiler is nothing but whining. No I haven’t read a review? Is that a criteria now? If its a comment that has to do with the ending of a movie–especially if it’s regarding a status quo change to an ongoing story-- how is that not a spoiler? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/84 "2014-04-05T15:56:25Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > No I haven’t read a review? Is that a criteria now? > If its a comment that has to do with the ending of a movie–especially if it’s regarding a status quo change to an ongoing story-- how is that not a spoiler? Because it was incredibly general and vague. If you’re THAT concerned, don’t read the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/85 "2014-04-05T19:30:17Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > No I haven’t read a review? Is that a criteria now? > If its a comment that has to do with the ending of a movie–especially if it’s regarding a status quo change to an ongoing story-- how is that not a spoiler? Because “status quo” change can mean a million different things. SHIELD could be bigger, smaller, have more divisions, less divisions, run by Cap America now, Run by Tony Stark now, Run by unseen good guys, unseen bad guys, unseen neutral guys, humans, aliens, clones, the blue dude in the tank from two weeks ago…practically anything Just saying there’s a “status quo” change isn’t spoilering anything because this is the Marvel universe after all. Also want to acknowledge SHIELD for a shout out to my Alma Mater of Ball State! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/86 "2014-04-05T21:06:47Z")
Anybody who has been paying attention to the logos knows something is coming and that the status quo is shifting. The shift from the SHIELD logo to Captain America’s shield and the subtitle “Uprising” doesn’t mean a thing? Hardly a secret that things are changing on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/87 "2014-04-05T21:14:05Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And he was in the opening credits. There’s more to come from Nash. As the _Buffy_ people always say, “Trust Joss.” Though that sometimes requires you to trust that Joss will kill a major character for the hell of it, or bring in a “big” (in the genre he’s working in) actor for a Captain Christopher Pike in _The Menagerie_ role. Joss has nothing to do with AoS at this point other than having a credit. His brother and sister in law run it. He’s working on The Avengers. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/88 "2014-04-05T21:23:21Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > One possibility with May is she’s one of the “false eye” agents working for the Clairvoyant against her will. So she’s a good guy but she’s being forced to work for the bad guys. In the episode where they introduced the Eye People, May had to fight her protege. If she was one of them, there wouldn’t have been a fight. And, if there was, protege would have gone down. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Could there be more to this than just writer worship? Some sort of psychic power/aura/magic/unknown “save me” power? Don’t be silly; psychic powers don’t exist. :rolleyes: After seeing the kind of divots May put in the window behind her and Fitz, I’m not really buying that it’s just a tranquilizer gun. I think those rounds should leave a mark. Like, a hole, with blood & everything. > [@Intergalactic Gladiator](#): > > They’re lucky all their fighter jets didn’t get washed off the desk as well. I always wonder why Cap & Bruce don’t get sucked right down into the turbofan when the helicarrier starts to take off. > [@Smeghead](#): > > Also, that’s not what “double-blind” means. It doesn’t mean that there are two people who don’t know everything. For it to be double blind, Skye herself would also not know who was going where. Instead, it seemed that she did the deciding and then parceled out the information, meaning the entire plan was in her head, thus defeating the purpose. Skye was staying in the holding cell once they put the plan in place rather than sitting on her bed with a laptop like she usually does, and my theory is that they thought the shielding on the cell would block The Clairvoyant. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/89 "2014-04-05T21:45:03Z")
Spoilers for Captain America: Winter Soldier: [spoiler]They might well try to tie Agent Hand and the Clairvoyant into Hydra, but… I dunno, doesn’t seem like a fit. Why even bother with the Clairvoyant if you’ve already infiltrated SHIELD from top to bottom? I think either way they kinda wrote themselves in a corner… either we have two unrelated-but-simultaneous infiltration/takeovers of SHIELD, or a combined one that doesn’t really make sense. Also not sure what direction they could take the TV show in. I suppose they could have the team operating as their own squad, but feels weird. I mean, if Maria Hill of all people left SHIELD…[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/90 "2014-04-05T22:29:46Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Spoilers for Captain America: Winter Soldier: > > [spoiler]They might well try to tie Agent Hand and the Clairvoyant into Hydra, but… I dunno, doesn’t seem like a fit. Why even bother with the Clairvoyant if you’ve already infiltrated SHIELD from top to bottom? I think either way they kinda wrote themselves in a corner… either we have two unrelated-but-simultaneous infiltration/takeovers of SHIELD, or a combined one that doesn’t really make sense. > > Also not sure what direction they could take the TV show in. I suppose they could have the team operating as their own squad, but feels weird. I mean, if Maria Hill of all people left SHIELD…[/spoiler] I’d taken it as the Clairvoyant _is_Arnim Zola. I’d been wondering where he was… Also, there’s no evidence that Agent Hand is a Hydra agent - she could be just sort of a dick who has no idea who’s been pulling the strings. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/91 "2014-04-06T01:46:17Z")
I have to say, recent _Agents of SHIELD_ and _Captain America: the Winter Soldier_ together have actually gotten me interested in this show again. I expected it to be another _Heroes_ – show with an interesting premise that goes sour because they won’t fix its flaws. But they’ve actually started taking advantage of all that Marvel IP, and tied it in with the movies (other than the Thor 2 “tie-in” with Peter McNichol; that was terribad). However, with the Winter Soldier events: I’m gonna be annoyed if they don’t at least handwaive how they’ll afford running “the Bus” next season without SHIELD funding the bills. There’s no way it won’t be on the show; they’ve spent too much on its sets (probably most of the show’s budget for sets, actually). But just the fuel costs alone for that gasguzzling monstrosity would be crippling. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/92 "2014-04-06T03:50:16Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > I’d taken it as the Clairvoyant _is_Arnim Zola. I’d been wondering where he was… > Also, there’s no evidence that Agent Hand is a Hydra agent - she could be just sort of a dick who has no idea who’s been pulling the strings. [spoiler] I was under this impression as well. Didn’t Skye say as much at the end of the episode when she said that the psych files weren’t files, they were information on everyone and how to reach them. Then I go see Cap 2 and Armin basically says that his algorithm is what he wrote to convert all of those things to fruition. And the captured guy said that e-mails, family history etc. is how the system picked the people to kill. So yeah I just figured that there is no “clarivoyant” there is just the algorithm.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/93 "2014-04-06T05:04:24Z")
Okay, I saw the movie and a spoiler for the next episode which makes me happy. I won’t piss anyone off by saying more. I am just wondering how they are going to handle this. If they talk about what happened in the movie during the TV show they will be spoiling the movie for anyone who hasn’t seen it yet. If they don’t allude to what happened in the movie then I wonder if the show is on a different timeline or if they will have different factions or if they will be stretching things out over a few episodes so there still isn’t a big reveal of what’s actually happening for a few more weeks? I think I am going to guess the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/94 "2014-04-07T14:09:02Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > [QUOTE=Little Nemo] > > Oh, right, like a television series would ever be taken seriously by its viewers if they brought back a character who everybody had seen die right on camera. > > Oh wait… I see what you did there, and I will avenge you! [/QUOTE] But who would you call on to assist? ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/95 "2014-04-07T18:03:37Z")
I think I have to stop watching the show until I can see Winter Soldier, based on what I’m hearing here and in other places on the internet. Sounds like they are just too deeply intertwined to see out of order. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/96 "2014-04-07T18:43:52Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I think I have to stop watching the show until I can see Winter Soldier, based on what I’m hearing here and in other places on the internet. Sounds like they are just too deeply intertwined to see out of order. The episode talked about here is happening “at the same time” (or just before) the events of Winter Soldier - so it doesn’t really spoil anything. I’m guessing you wouldn’t want to watch the next one until after havng seen the movie - but won’t know that until tomorrow night. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/97 "2014-04-07T19:27:32Z")
That’s what people are saying - after this next episode things are spoilerific for everything. The level of interaction between movie and TV show have gotten even blurrier. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/98 "2014-04-07T19:47:34Z")
From what I understand, there will be a new episode tomorrow night titled “Turn, Turn, Turn”. Next week, on April 15, they will show “Turn, Turn, Turn” again, followed immediately by a new episode called “Providence”. I suspect, although I do not know for sure, that “Providence” will assume people have seen Cap 2… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/99 "2014-04-07T19:57:27Z")
USAToday goes all spoilery on the remaining 6 episodes. Do not click on [this link](http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2014/04/06/captain-america-agents-of-shield-tv-series/7313369/) if you wish to remain spoiler-free. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132/100 "2014-04-07T20:07:26Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > USAToday goes all spoilery on the remaining 6 episodes. Do not click on [this link](http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2014/04/06/captain-america-agents-of-shield-tv-series/7313369/) if you wish to remain spoiler-free. The video at the bottom of that page needs a little more cowbell. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e16-end-of-the-beginning-open-spoilers/685132.md?page=6)