# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S01E18: Providence (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229 "2014-04-16T02:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/101 "2014-04-19T03:42:02Z")
They just pulled off one of the best heel turns in recent memory. They aren’t going to kill him off. They’re going to build him up over multiple episodes before someone kicks his ass. Hopefully May. But he’ll get away, and recuperate, and then return to raise some more hell. That’s how comics work. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/102 "2014-04-19T10:47:28Z")
I had been very disappointed in the episode where they steal the miraculous healing-serum, because they killed the two guards (who were SHIELD agents, after all) without a second thought or an after-qualm. That’s not heroic, I said to myself, that’s just nasty. Now, however, it was Ward and Garrett who did that, and so the whole thing makes more sense. Brilliant writing, but I came close to abandoning the series. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/103 "2014-04-19T16:34:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > They just pulled off one of the best heel turns in recent memory. They aren’t going to kill him off. They’re going to build him up over multiple episodes before someone kicks his ass. Hopefully May. But he’ll get away, and recuperate, and then return to raise some more hell. That’s how comics work. They’ll probably pull a Sylar (Heroes). It’ll appear as if he’s been vanquished until the final seconds of the season finale when it is revealed (SURPRISE!) he isn’t dead after all. That was his clone/robot/hologram that died. Or he’s revived with the magic life-giving alien serum. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/104 "2014-04-19T21:40:43Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I had been very disappointed in the episode where they steal the miraculous healing-serum, because they killed the two guards (who were SHIELD agents, after all) without a second thought or an after-qualm. That’s not heroic, I said to myself, that’s just nasty. Now, however, it was Ward and Garrett who did that, and so the whole thing makes more sense. Brilliant writing, but I came close to abandoning the series. I thought they explicitly said that this was not a SHIELD installation? But it also goes into my theory (shared by others here, I believe) that one of Sky’s latent abilities is the inspiration of fanatical devotion. Accounts nicely for Coulson’s out of character actions. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/105 "2014-04-20T00:32:26Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I had been very disappointed in the episode where they steal the miraculous healing-serum, because they killed the two guards (who were SHIELD agents, after all) without a second thought or an after-qualm. That’s not heroic, I said to myself, that’s just nasty. Now, however, it was Ward and Garrett who did that, and so the whole thing makes more sense. Brilliant writing, but I came close to abandoning the series. If it were not okay to kill innocent men, Coulson would have pitched a fit. He didn’t. Skye is waaaay more important than everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/106 "2014-04-20T01:47:09Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > But it also goes into my theory (shared by others here, I believe) that one of Sky’s latent abilities is the inspiration of fanatical devotion. Accounts nicely for Coulson’s out of character actions. Can you remind us with some examples of Coulson’s uncharacteristic actions? I think Coulson just has a soft spot for everyone on his team, and Skye especially because of her outlook and energy, and more recently their ability to relate through their shared desire to find answers about their respective pasts. But I’m open to opposing theories. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/107 "2014-04-20T02:31:15Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > If it were not okay to kill innocent men, Coulson would have pitched a fit. He didn’t. Skye is waaaay more important than everybody. Those guys were not “innocent men”. They were combatants. wearing uniforms and carrying arms–which they used. Maybe they worked for SHIELD, or HYDRA, or AIM, or some as yet unknown entity. They were the equivalent of red-shirt storm troopers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/108 "2014-04-20T03:47:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Those guys were not “innocent men”. They were combatants. wearing uniforms and carrying arms–which they used. Maybe they worked for SHIELD, or HYDRA, or AIM, or some as yet unknown entity. They were the equivalent of red-shirt storm troopers. Are you sure about that? I thought something like that required a declaration of war. I don’t know if SHIELD has the authority to declare war but Coulson’s team hadn’t sought official permission anyway. What they did was the equivalent of robbing a bank and shooting the guards. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/109 "2014-04-20T05:11:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you sure about that? I thought something like that required a declaration of war. I don’t know if SHIELD has the authority to declare war but Coulson’s team hadn’t sought official permission anyway. What they did was the equivalent of robbing a bank and shooting the guards. Banks don’t build branches in super secret locations with guards that shoot on sight. It’s still an open question whether that was a “friendly” base or not, but those guards were little more than animated set dressing from a storyline point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/110 "2014-04-20T05:32:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Banks don’t build branches in super secret locations with guards that shoot on sight. It’s still an open question whether that was a “friendly” base or not, but those guards were little more than animated set dressing from a storyline point of view. The wilderness location wasn’t a legal point. The point was these guys were guarding the property and Coulson’s team was trying to break in with no legal authority to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/111 "2014-04-20T05:49:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The wilderness location wasn’t a legal point. The point was these guys were guarding the property and Coulson’s team was trying to break in with no legal authority to do so. Comic book law is different. There is no 4th Amendment…or really much of a Bill of Rights at all…if you happen to be a villain. Bad guys get their asses kicked, then thrown in the Super Slammer without even a trial. Oddly enough, there appears to be no death penalty, but I suppose that would make the inevitable sequels difficult. I think it would be a hoot to represent a Super Villain. “Your Honor, the Avengers failed to give Loki the Miranda Warnings, therefor his confession should be suppressed.” And we’ll be filing an action under 42 USC 1983 against Dr. Banner/Hulk for excessive force… ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/112 "2014-04-20T08:04:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Oddly enough, there appears to be no death penalty, but I suppose that would make the inevitable sequels difficult. Well, quite a lot of comic book throwdowns do occur in New York, which has no death penalty… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/113 "2014-04-20T14:52:53Z")
I’m not too keen on the trope of the Big Secret Thing that stays secret for, like, ten minutes. Also used in Smallville when one of the bad guys goes through extensive plastic surgery to hide from Lex Luthor, and Lex walks in while they’re taking off the bandages. Gee, that was a great idea… > [@Little Nemo](#): > > You forgot: > > 1. Major Talbot’s obviously fake moustache. I was more concerned with his hair; it looked like they shaved his head and then glued Adolf Hitler’s mustache to the top. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Ward was pretty mad at Garrett for having his widdle Skye shot. Does everybody on the team know she’s an O84, or just Coulson & May? If Ward knew, that would justify a certain peevedness. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > Are you sure about that? I thought something like that required a declaration of war. I don’t know if SHIELD has the authority to declare war but Coulson’s team hadn’t sought official permission anyway. What they did was the equivalent of robbing a bank and shooting the guards. SHIELD has the authority to nuke New York, or at least they think they do. Did. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/114 "2014-04-21T21:33:49Z")
Sorry, I should have expanded my comments more. The guards were not “innocent,” they were armed guards, but you would think that an attempt to talk or reason with them would be tried first. And I thought it clearly WAS a SHIELD facility. On resurrections: that happens in comic books, that publish monthly stories over 30+ years (and some characters have more than one comic per month, and in the old days, there was more than one story per comic), so characters would return after being totally defeated, arrested, killed, whatever. That doesn’t happen so often in movies or TV series, which have much more limited runs. Yes, BATMAN had two different Jokers (Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger) but that was a reboot, not a “return.” When you’re only talking a handful of movies, or a few years of TV show, you don’t resurrect old favorite villains. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/115 "2014-04-21T21:37:17Z")
I thought they did try to reason with the guards. Didn’t they say something to the effect of “Our friend’s life depends on us getting something from here. We don’t want to shoot, but we ARE getting it.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/116 "2014-04-21T21:50:11Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Bad guys get their asses kicked, then thrown in the Super Slammer without even a trial. Oddly enough, there appears to be no death penalty This is comic book law. There’s no point in having a death penalty if people just keep coming back to life. You might as well lock them in prison where there’s a remote chance they’ll stay confined. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/117 "2014-04-21T21:55:39Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > SHIELD has the authority to nuke New York, or at least they think they do. Did. Whatever. I’m surprised at how many people still get this wrong. It was very clear in the movie that SHIELD did not authorize a nuclear attack on NYC. The World Security Council authorized the attack and then ordered SHIELD to carry it out. Congress could declare war on Mexico and send the United States Marine Corps in to invade. But that doesn’t mean the Marines can declare war on Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/118 "2014-04-21T23:45:20Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Sorry, I should have expanded my comments more. The guards were not “innocent,” they were armed guards, but you would think that an attempt to talk or reason with them would be tried first. And I thought it clearly WAS a SHIELD facility. No, it clearly was not a SHIELD facility. None of them could find out anything about the place through SHIELD channels, the guards were completely unimpressed to them waving about SHIELD credentials, and they stated that Fury had to pull a lot of strings/call in favors to get access to the place. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/119 "2014-04-22T00:09:18Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > No, it clearly was not a SHIELD facility. I’m wondering if maybe it was a S.W.O.R.D. facility… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229/120 "2014-04-22T01:39:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’m wondering if maybe it was a S.W.O.R.D. facility… It’s very possible. Guess who created SWORD while he was writing X-Men? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e18-providence-open-spoilers/686229.md?page=7)