# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S01E20: Nothing Personal (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332 "2014-04-30T01:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/81 "2014-05-02T20:19:51Z")
I agree on Ward - he makes a nice Bad Guy, and he knows how Our Heroes tick. That should be good for at least another season. I also agree about Deathlok. He’s got to be close to slipping his leash, and with his history in the books… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/82 "2014-05-02T20:26:37Z")
> [@Sean\_Factotum](#): > > Because that worked so well with Coulson, keeping him in the dark about Tahiti\> Coulson found out because he has friends in Shield who feel a great deal of personal loyalty to him, and are concerned that he’s being treated fairly and justly. Ward’s a Hydra agent. Who gives a shit what happens to him any more? Who in Shield would go to bat for this guy to help him learn what really happened, or would care if the process failed and turned his brain into oatmeal? There’s a lot of ways they could write a scenario where having an amnesiac Ward on the team could be to their short-term benefit, and a lot of ways that scenario could “unexpectedly” turn into a long-term arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/83 "2014-05-02T21:01:51Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Now, what I’m really wondering, who is keeping track of the “eyeball cam” on poor Mike to keep him in line? Garrett has been wandering around now for a while either pretending to be an Agent, or liberating the Fridge, or running his new post-fridge ops from whatever sewer treatment facility he’s taken over - so who’s watching for signs of rebellion to keep Mike in check? Excellent question, and not only for Deathlok. We’ve seen other people with those eyeball cam things, and there may be others we haven’t seen yet… ---
**Author:** ![MrKnowItAll](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrknowitall/32/87_2.png) [@MrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrKnowItAll)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/84 "2014-05-02T21:27:22Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I think you’re reading too much into that exchange. My thoughts exactly. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/85 "2014-05-02T21:36:27Z")
I didn’t catch the cops living through it, but that strikes me as similar to the old “cobra pilots always bail out just in time” shtick. Regardless of where he aimed, he shot and wounded cops, without a word of warning. That’s a capital offense in some states. A deep cover agent would’ve found another way, I think. (not to mention head-shotting the shield agents at the fridge. He could’ve shot them in the legs too.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/86 "2014-05-02T21:49:46Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Excellent question, and not only for Deathlok. We’ve seen other people with those eyeball cam things, and there may be others we haven’t seen yet… They said that Hydra has managed to take control of some former Shield facilities like the Tree House in East Africa. So they presumably have enough organization set up in places like that to keep running ongoing operations like Operation Eyeball. The way it appears the civil war shattered both Shield and Hydra. Both sides were able to establish a secure base and then send out teams to try to gain control of bases in the gray area that neither side controlled. Then Col Talbott’s group stepped in and is taking over what remains of Shield’s organization. Whether there is any independent Shield organization that’s larger than a team like Coulson’s hasn’t been answered yet. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/87 "2014-05-02T21:58:40Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I really didn’t get that at all. It felt to me like she was letting him know that she was on to his Hydra loyalties, and this was her way of turning him. There’s nothing in that exchange that would indicate to me that she was trying to convince him she was Hydra. The whole exchange about hiding your real self, references to Garrett, turning on your fake friends; that was Skye letting Ward know she was on to him before turning him in. > > I think you’re reading too much into that exchange. Maybe. But she seemed to be putting a lot of effort into saying things so that it left it plausible for her to appear to be a Hydra agent. She talked about Grant’s disloyalty but only talked about how he had betrayed Garrett - there was nothing about him betraying Coulson or May or Fitz or Simmons or Skye herself. She talked about Ward hiding his true identity but never said anything like “You’ve been hiding your true identity all the months I’ve known you.” And saying “Hail Hydra” in a sarcastic manner is fairly subjective. Saying something like “Fuck those Hydra Nazis” would have left no ambiguity. Contrast what she was saying in the diner to what she said after she had been recaptured. She certainly was not ambiguous about her feelings towards Hydra and Ward then. Which makes me feel her earlier ambiguity was deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![MrKnowItAll](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrknowitall/32/87_2.png) [@MrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrKnowItAll)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/88 "2014-05-02T22:02:23Z")
Or, she was stalling. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/89 "2014-05-02T23:18:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe. But she seemed to be putting a lot of effort into saying things so that it left it plausible for her to appear to be a Hydra agent. She talked about Grant’s disloyalty but only talked about how he had betrayed Garrett - there was nothing about him betraying Coulson or May or Fitz or Simmons or Skye herself. She talked about Ward hiding his true identity but never said anything like “You’ve been hiding your true identity all the months I’ve known you.” And saying “Hail Hydra” in a sarcastic manner is fairly subjective. Saying something like “Fuck those Hydra Nazis” would have left no ambiguity. > > Contrast what she was saying in the diner to what she said after she had been recaptured. She certainly was not ambiguous about her feelings towards Hydra and Ward then. Which makes me feel her earlier ambiguity was deliberate. That was the point- she was playing along with Ward still being loyal and being “empathetic”, but really describing what Ward was doing to them. I thought the scene was great because even though it seemed she was describing how Ward must have felt about Garrett, she as actually talking about herself. As she spoke she got angrier and angrier until she pulled the reveal that she knew he was Hydra. I thought it was pretty clear, but maybe that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/90 "2014-05-03T03:24:18Z")
> [@MrKnowItAll](#): > > Or, she was stalling. And making the reveal as painful as possible for Ward. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/91 "2014-05-03T05:20:22Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That was the point- she was playing along with Ward still being loyal and being “empathetic”, but really describing what Ward was doing to them. I thought the scene was great because even though it seemed she was describing how Ward must have felt about Garrett, she as actually talking about herself. As she spoke she got angrier and angrier until she pulled the reveal that she knew he was Hydra. > > I thought it was pretty clear, but maybe that’s just me. …yeah this. The other thing to remember is that the clock was ticking and Skye’s time was running out. She couldn’t keep stalling forever, and Team Coulson weren’t there to rescue her, so she had to do it herself. Which again: was pretty awesome. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/92 "2014-05-03T05:44:45Z")
I think it’s a bit silly how upset Coulson is about the whole TAHITI thing. Yes, it was a pretty awful procedure. But the alternative was BEING DEAD!!! So he had shitty month, and his memory was fucked with. But he’s ALIVE! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/93 "2014-05-03T07:22:41Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I think it’s a bit silly how upset Coulson is about the whole TAHITI thing. Yes, it was a pretty awful procedure. But the alternative was BEING DEAD!!! > > So he had shitty month, and his memory was fucked with. But he’s ALIVE! We really don’t know what his background is. Maybe he’s a religious guy and isn’t afraid of dying because he believes in an afterlife. It’s also a debatable point whether he didn’t “die”. He may be a person living in Phil Coulson’s revived body but is he the same Phil Coulson he was before his death? I’m not just talking in a metaphysical sense. I’m saying he has no way of knowing how much of his current personality is implanted. Several people who knew him from before his revival have commented that he seems different. There’s also the possibility that he was revived with a hidden agenda. He doesn’t know if his memory implantation might include some form of mind control. Maybe all somebody has to do is say the password and he’ll blow up the Bus in mid-air and kill everyone on his team. On top of being betrayed by people around him, he was to worry that he might betray himself. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/94 "2014-05-03T08:43:52Z")
I think Skye’s decision to decrypt the drive was more driven by her feelings for Deathlok than her feelings for Ward. While she would be perfectly happy with Ward biting the dust, she still feels responsible for Mike and thinks she could save him. This beomes a bit more difficult if his head a splode. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/95 "2014-05-03T15:36:28Z")
> [@MrKnowItAll](#): > > The picture thing bothered me. I expected it to be an electronic screen, and that Skye would have hacked into it displaying more information about what had happened, and perhaps some idea of what she’d be trying to do. “Ward is Hydra”? That’s it? Seriously? Yeah, it could/should have been an electronic screen. I actually liked the fact that it just said “WARD IS HYDRA”. It’s the most obvious choice of words but it seemed perfect in its efficiency and drama. > [@MrKnowItAll](#): > > I like the touch of Coulson unbuttoning his jacket when he and Maria were getting ready to attack the commandos. Could be the making of a signature move. “Uh-oh. Coulson just unbuttoned his jacket. Someone’s getting their ass kicked.” I like this idea. I want to see it. > [@Lasciel](#): > > I hope they keep him around as a bad guy for longer tho - he’s working out much better as a semi-conflicted mostly-bad Ward than he ever did as “mr specialist traumatized works-alone even though he’s “in wuv” agent” Ward. > > I hope he stick around as evil as long as possible. Garrett I don’t care one way or the other, but Ward and Flowers are getting much more interesting now (wonder what she was hoping to get out of an actual real Clairvoyant that she didn’t get?) I’m actually already bored by the idea of Ward as a long-running baddie. He’s hardly charismatic, or even evil in an entertaining way. Raina seemed pretty upset that “The Clairvoyant” was bullshit. I wonder if she’s going to turn rogue and perhaps even kill Garrett herself. She also called Coulson “a good man”. Perhaps she’s going to move from “baddie” to something more ambiguous. > [@Lasciel](#): > > Now, what I’m really wondering, who is keeping track of the “eyeball cam” on poor Mike to keep him in line? Garrett has been wandering around now for a while either pretending to be an Agent, or liberating the Fridge, or running his new post-fridge ops from whatever sewer treatment facility he’s taken over - so who’s watching for signs of rebellion to keep Mike in check? We know Hydra has practically destroyed SHIELD with the level of infiltration they’ve managed. I’m sure they can spare a few people to keep an eye on Mike Peterson. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That was the point- she was playing along with Ward still being loyal and being “empathetic”, but really describing what Ward was doing to them. I thought the scene was great because even though it seemed she was describing how Ward must have felt about Garrett, she as actually talking about herself. As she spoke she got angrier and angrier until she pulled the reveal that she knew he was Hydra. > > I thought it was pretty clear, but maybe that’s just me. It seemed perfectly clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/96 "2014-05-03T15:50:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > I think Skye’s decision to decrypt the drive was more driven by her feelings for Deathlok than her feelings for Ward. > > While she would be perfectly happy with Ward biting the dust, she still feels responsible for Mike and thinks she could save him. This beomes a bit more difficult if his head a splode. That, actually, would have been a much cooler way to break her. Mike: Skye, there’s a counter in my eye right now. It’s at ten. When it hits zero, Garret is going to detonate the bomb in my head. Skye: What!? Mike: Nine. Skye: Wait! Mike: Eight. … and so on, until she spills. For extra angsty goodness, afterward, he can totally diss her for not letting him die. Although I really do enjoy watching Deathlok be a dick to Ward. I hope that’s a running theme from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/97 "2014-05-03T18:49:38Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Raina seemed pretty upset that “The Clairvoyant” was bullshit. I wonder if she’s going to turn rogue and perhaps even kill Garrett herself. She also called Coulson “a good man”. Perhaps she’s going to move from “baddie” to something more ambiguous. Perhaps. But maybe finding out that Garrett was just faking his clairvoyance through his access to Shield files (which he no longer has) is making Raina consider new opportunities. She might be thinking that she’s as qualified to lead Garrett’s organization as he now is and might be sounding out Ward as a possible defector. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/98 "2014-05-03T19:52:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Perhaps. But maybe finding out that Garrett was just faking his clairvoyance through his access to Shield files (which he no longer has) is making Raina consider new opportunities. She might be thinking that she’s as qualified to lead Garrett’s organization as he now is and might be sounding out Ward as a possible defector. I don’t see any evidence that she thinks of herself as a “leader.” I think it’s more that she did bad things because she thought the Clairvoyant could actually read the future. Makes sense to me, that someone would set aside their moral qualms when they think that the future is set and fixed. when she learns he’s a fraud, she’s got to be rethinking her loyalties. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/99 "2014-05-03T20:17:43Z")
Has Flower Lady killed anyone? I know she’s guilty of all sorts of human rights violations. I figure she dies eventually, maybe with a little redemption. Even if Flower turns sorta good, it wouldn’t make sense for her to bring Ward back to the light side. He’s served with the good guys for years and if that wasn’t enough to turn him, nothing should. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332/100 "2014-05-03T21:50:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Perhaps. But maybe finding out that Garrett was just faking his clairvoyance through his access to Shield files (which he no longer has) is making Raina consider new opportunities. She might be thinking that she’s as qualified to lead Garrett’s organization as he now is and might be sounding out Ward as a possible defector. That sounds at least as likely to me. We know she’s not bothered when a superior dies to make way for her. Either way, I don’t think she’s going to fall in line with Hydra. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e20-nothing-personal-open-spoilers/687332.md?page=6)