# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S01E21:Ragtag (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 7, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868 "2014-05-07T04:00:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/121 "2014-05-09T18:41:57Z")
But I don’t think Garrett meant that Ward was being accepted into SHIELD Operations Division as a full fledged agent - just that he was being accepted into training. Back in the episode where they talked about the 3 different training facilities in SHIELD, it was implied or stated that Ward had gone through the Operations training school. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/122 "2014-05-09T19:57:03Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > But I don’t think Garrett meant that Ward was being accepted into SHIELD Operations Division as a full fledged agent - just that he was being accepted into training. Back in the episode where they talked about the 3 different training facilities in SHIELD, it was implied or stated that Ward had gone through the Operations training school. Exactly. He would have washed out of training IMO, but who knows. I doubt he went to the academy that FitzSimmons was at, maybe it was more like basic training. Either way, I have a tough time picturing this loner, living in the woods essentially alone for 5 years, jumping to a training facility and thriving. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/123 "2014-05-09T20:08:29Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Exactly. He would have washed out of training IMO, but who knows. I doubt he went to the academy that FitzSimmons was at, maybe it was more like basic training. Either way, I have a tough time picturing this loner, living in the woods essentially alone for 5 years, jumping to a training facility and thriving. From “Seeds” - Ward went to the Operations Academy, which had the highest washout rate. Fitz and Simmons went to Sci-Tech Academy, which was the hardest to get into - you needed at least one PhD to even apply. But there were no rope swings or defined muscularity. And they all agreed Skye would have gone to Communications Academy, which is the easiest to get into, as well as boring. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/124 "2014-05-09T20:17:14Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > The problem with swerves is that in reconstructing them, key control points are assumed to have been totally incompetent and easy to slip by. SHIELD is a world security force, so you’d think they’d be a bit more careful about who they’re letting in. How can Ward get in just on Garrett’s say so? Don’t prospective agents have to go through grueling interviews and background checks? It wouldn’t take more than a Google search to find that Ward had a criminal background, got sprung from jail, and followed with a decade-long gap with no record of residence or work place. > > Also, when you leave somebody out in the woods with a dog for several years and tell them to fend for themselves, they’re not exactly going to come out of the ordeal clean-shaven and civilized. It’d be like trying to get Ted Kaczynski into the CIA. DOWN WITH SWERVES! I agree with most of what you’ve written, **Knowed Out** - even if we assume SHIELD would identify potential recruits from juvenile offenders, they’d probably just have Ward transferred (and his paperwork “lost”) into SHIELD custody rather than pointing a bunch of guns at prison guards. And they would ask where Ward went during the several months Garrett left him out in the wilderness. I guess the fanwank has to be that HYDRA identified Ward for recruitment first, purposely bringing him in to infiltrate SHIELD. Even more suspicious, how could SHIELD not have known that Garrett was Deathlok? (sp?) Don’t they do regular medical checkups on their agents that would reveal Garrett was a frickin’ **cyborg**?? Maybe SHIELD medical division was the first part subverted by HYDRA… ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/125 "2014-05-09T21:30:47Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Even more suspicious, how could SHIELD not have known that Garrett was Deathlok? (sp?) Don’t they do regular medical checkups on their agents that would reveal Garrett was a frickin’ **cyborg**?? > > Maybe SHIELD medical division was the first part subverted by HYDRA… I had the same thoughts and my solution was the same as yours. The folks who did this to Garrett also were responsible for covering it up within SHIELD. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/126 "2014-05-09T21:53:08Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > That’s what I’m expecting, if I’m right about Triplett’s grandfather. Or more to the point, we’ll be supposed to admire SHIELD for its open-mindedness in listening to both a woman _and_ a black guy. “Hey look, they’re not racist even though this is set in the past” is a pretty standard way to tell audiences they’re supposed to respect a character. Based on the Agent Carter short, which seems to be the “pilot” for the series, I don’t think we are supposed to respect them at all. Pretty sure a central point of the show is going to be dealing with sexism and racism. ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/127 "2014-05-09T23:29:46Z")
It would seem to me that HYDRA began working on infiltrating SHIELD within the first decade following WWII. Theoretically, going with the assumption that HYDRA began sneaking in agents as early as 1955-ish, give or take a few years, there are HYDRA agents who have _served through an entire SHIELD career_, retired and have been drawing a pension from SHIELD for, again theoretically, decades. “Out of the shadows and into the light, my ass! I just had my dinner at 4pm at the Old Agents’ Home, and it’s _lights out_ for me!” Here’s another thought. Books, movies and TV that deal with organizations which dabble in spying to a significant degree usually have agents planted in other organizations, and vice versa. Double agents. Triple agents. So why did SHIELD, supposedly the top dog of spy organizations: 1) never seem to have caught any HYDRA (and maybe other organizations) agent at any time hiding in their ranks, and 2) why did SHIELD not have any agents infiltrating _HYDRA_ (or others)? It made for a pretty decent story in Cap2, but it raised the question of why SHIELD as a whole has been carrying the Dumb Ball for longer than I myself have been alive, at least (And I’m 53). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/128 "2014-05-09T23:47:33Z")
Well, you have to go with the idea that HYDRA just infiltrated key positions under deep cover, and the overwhelming majority of SHIELD personnel are loyal and true. The problem was there was no way for Natasha or anybody else to tell off-hand and immediately, so she burned _everybody_. Add in the fact that HYDRA was deep, deep cover in SHIELD. It’s doubtful they actively influenced day to day operations until Project Insight came to fruition. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/129 "2014-05-10T00:25:52Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Based on the Agent Carter short, which seems to be the “pilot” for the series, I don’t think we are supposed to respect them at all. Pretty sure a central point of the show is going to be dealing with sexism and racism. There’s a far more sinister explanation. In the recent movie, Hydra claimed it was responsible for many of the social problems in the last few decades. What would be more in keeping with Hydra’s goals than promoting sexism and racism in American society? It would weaken America by denying them the resources of all its population and promote divisive unrest. One of Hydra’s first projects would have been to reverse the advances that women and blacks had made during the war. So Agent Flynn, the misogynist supervisor in the Agent Carter short? Obviously he was a Hydra plant. ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/130 "2014-05-10T00:39:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Well, you have to go with the idea that HYDRA just infiltrated key positions under deep cover, and the overwhelming majority of SHIELD personnel are loyal and true. The problem was there was no way for Natasha or anybody else to tell off-hand and immediately, so she burned _everybody_. Add in the fact that HYDRA was deep, deep cover in SHIELD. It’s doubtful they actively influenced day to day operations until Project Insight came to fruition. Good point. In Cap2 and on MAOS, we’ve seen a _lot_, relatively, of boots on the ground. Cannon fodder. Goons with weapons. Doesn’t necessarily mean that 1 out of every 2 or 3 SHIELD personnel are really HYDRA. Although they do have significant numbers, having taken control of a few SHIELD bases, that doesn’t mean that all or even the main bulk of their forces were infiltrators. I hope to see at least a plot thread in MAOS Season 2, where some HYDRA agents that our team goes up against reveal that they’re really SHIELD, but let’s all keep the secret still, as there’s still a lot of work to be done, okay?. It would seem to be a good idea, and I’d be mollified. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/131 "2014-05-10T02:30:24Z")
> [@tripthicket](#): > > I hope to see at least a plot thread in MAOS Season 2, where some HYDRA agents that our team goes up against reveal that they’re really SHIELD, but let’s all keep the secret still, as there’s still a lot of work to be done, okay?. It would seem to be a good idea, and I’d be mollified. You have to figure there are still Hydra sleepers in Shield. I would assume that all the Hydra agents who were in a Shield facility came out because they needed bodies for their attempt to take over. But you have to figure there were Hydra sleepers among the Shield agents who were out in the field on some mission when the battle started. These guys weren’t going to tip the balance either way. So the smart move for them would be to stay hidden. If Hydra won, they could report in. And if Hydra lost the fight, they’d be there as a reserve for rebuilding the organization. It’s all part of the “Cut off one head, two more take its place” principle. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/132 "2014-05-10T02:50:18Z")
Which is why I still worry about Simmons. I hate that because she’s a lovely girl (character as well as person), but she could be a serious stone-cold Hydra mole - what better cover than ‘I’m cute and unwordly and innocent and can’t lie worth a damn’ can there even be? Also that means we would get to see Fitz cry again, and any show with Joss Whedon’s fingerprints I have to assume that someone’s going to get their heart ripped out of their chest and have to watch it beat in front of them for a few heartbeats before they die in emotional agony over the unforseen betrayal. So yeah. SHIELD pretty much useless. You had one job, guys. One job! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/133 "2014-05-10T02:59:59Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > and any show with Joss Whedon’s fingerprints I have to assume that someone’s going to get their heart ripped out of their chest and have to watch it beat in front of them for a few heartbeats before they die in emotional agony over the unforseen betrayal. Sudden, yet inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/134 "2014-05-10T03:01:16Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Also that means we would get to see Fitz cry again, and any show with Joss Whedon’s fingerprints I have to assume that someone’s going to get their heart ripped out of their chest and have to watch it beat in front of them for a few heartbeats before they die in emotional agony over the unforseen betrayal. Since I know and care nothing about Joss Whedon, I have to ask: has Whedon ever killed off a main titles character in the first season? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/135 "2014-05-10T03:05:34Z")
Dude, Joss killed a main credits character in the freaking _first episode_ of **Buffy**. Then he killed Doyle in the first season of **Angel**. That one was not totally his fault, I’ll admit. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/136 "2014-05-10T03:16:04Z")
> [@tripthicket](#): > > So why did SHIELD, supposedly the top dog of spy organizations: 1) never seem to have caught any HYDRA (and maybe other organizations) agent at any time hiding in their ranks, and 2) why did SHIELD not have any agents infiltrating _HYDRA_ (or others)? Didn’t Shield think Hydra had been destroyed in World War II? It makes sense that they weren’t looking for agents of an organization they thought was defunct. Hydra probably even had cover stories for its agents so that if any of them did get caught, they’d look like KGB agents or something more current. ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/137 "2014-05-10T03:34:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Didn’t Shield think Hydra had been destroyed in World War II? It makes sense that they weren’t looking for agents of an organization they thought was defunct. Hydra probably even had cover stories for its agents so that if any of them did get caught, they’d look like KGB agents or something more current. ALSO a very good point. What the _HELL_, was I absent the day they taught how to think things through? SHEESH! Seriously, I’m happy to see my points addressed, nay, _furthered_, so adroitly. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/138 "2014-05-10T04:08:15Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > To say nothing of having become a crack shot and a super-martial arts expert. Why in the world would he be accepted as a SHIELD agent without undergoing the training that we’ve seen for everyone else? > > I also think that the season finale has enough loose ends to address, that the question of Buddy in the rifle sights won’t come up. YMMV. He was accepted as a recruit, in 2004, from my count. Say 3 years training, that leaves him with 5 years or so standing come the pilot. Annnnd , did Hill not say that his people skills were awful? ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/139 "2014-05-10T10:53:30Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > He was accepted as a recruit, in 2004, from my count. Say 3 years training His most impressive achievement, in my opinion, was to become _fluent in FIVE languages_ during those three years! (Unless, of course, we’re assuming he was either fluent in five languages when Garrett found him or he learned five languages while living in the woods) ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868/140 "2014-05-10T10:56:57Z")
Oh, and I’m so happy that ABC is picking up _Agent Carter_. I thought it was meant to be a Netflix series and I didn’t want to have to get Netflix in order to watch it. I absolutely _loved_ the Agent Carter short film- easily my favorite of all the Marvel One Shots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e21-ragtag-open-spoilers/687868.md?page=8)