# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S01E22:Beginning of the End (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 14, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406 "2014-05-14T02:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/81 "2014-05-15T15:51:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The Inhumans are a reasonable guess. Their backstory is tied in with the Kree and the alien we saw was probably a Kree. The Inhuman base, Attilan, has been moved around but at one point it was located in the Himalayas, which would fit in with Skye’s Chinese origins. > > And while I’m not suggesting Ward is an Inhuman, his inability to speak could be a winking reference to Black Bolt. Where does the idea that Ward could be extra-human come from? Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/82 "2014-05-15T15:51:56Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Was it attached or was it a portable nail gun? My brother has a nail gun that uses its own supply of compressed air. Think a paintball gun tank, only about three times the size. Attached. But we figured it out up above. Good point about Fury, **JSexton**. I’d forgotten that Simmons was there at the base first. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/83 "2014-05-15T15:54:35Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Simmons needs decompression becuase she was breathing compressed air 90 feet under the sea. Fitz does not need decompression, because he was holding his breath (sorta), so the air in his blood (what was left) was not compressed. > > Thing sponge divers versus scuba divers. No. If the container was at ambient pressure, they were both breathing 3.7 atm air for hours, and would both need decompression. If the container was a pressure vessel, and the air inside was at 1 atm, than she breathed off a nearly empty air bottle at 3.7 atm for a few minutes at most as she ascended, which would not require time in a decompression chamber. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/84 "2014-05-15T16:16:46Z")
> [@dublos](#): > > I feel like I missed something. > At what point was the gender of Skye’s parental unit revealed? Every online reference I have seen refers to that bloody figure as her Dad, yet I didn’t hear Raina use any pronouns or other gender reference when talking to them. I just heard her say that she (Raina) had information about “your daughter”, which would make it just as likely that the bloody figure is Skye’s Mom as it is that the figure is Skye’s Dad. I thought we knew that her mother was dead? Maybe I’m misremembering, though. Also, I guess “dead” doesn’t mean much in the MCU. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/85 "2014-05-15T16:18:53Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Simmons needs decompression becuase she was breathing compressed air 90 feet under the sea. Fitz does not need decompression, because he was holding his breath (sorta), so the air in his blood (what was left) was not compressed. Why do you think Fitz didn’t need decompression? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/86 "2014-05-15T16:26:51Z")
> [@dublos](#): > > At what point was the gender of Skye’s parental unit revealed? Every online reference I have seen refers to that bloody figure as her Dad, yet I didn’t hear Raina use any pronouns or other gender reference when talking to them. I just heard her say that she (Raina) had information about “your daughter”, which would make it just as likely that the bloody figure is Skye’s Mom as it is that the figure is Skye’s Dad. I thought she called him “Sir.” ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/87 "2014-05-15T16:32:38Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > No. If the container was at ambient pressure, they were both breathing 3.7 atm air for hours, and would both need decompression. If the container was a pressure vessel, and the air inside was at 1 atm, than she breathed off a nearly empty air bottle at 3.7 atm for a few minutes at most as she ascended, which would not require time in a decompression chamber. I thought the pod was pressurized, which was why Fitz was bewildered that it sank. As for the rest. It’s been at least twenty years since I last dove. I’m more than happy to admit I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/88 "2014-05-15T16:35:49Z")
> [@dublos](#): > > At what point was the gender of Skye’s parental unit revealed? Every online reference I have seen refers to that bloody figure as her Dad, yet I didn’t hear Raina use any pronouns or other gender reference when talking to them. I just heard her say that she (Raina) had information about “your daughter”, which would make it just as likely that the bloody figure is Skye’s Mom as it is that the figure is Skye’s Dad. You’re right. It could be her Mom. The figure was shown from behind in shadow. You could see a short haircut, and that’s what made me jump to the conclusion that it was a man. But, he or she was never addressed by name (and if they used a name it would have probably been Pat or Jamie) or anything gender specific. > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I thought the pod was pressurized, which was why Fitz was bewildered that it sank. As for the rest. It’s been at least twenty years since I last dove. I’m more than happy to admit I could be wrong. Nope. I just rewatched, and she doesn’t say sir or anything like it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/89 "2014-05-15T16:45:29Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Where does the idea that Ward could be extra-human come from? Did I miss something? My point is that I think it’s possible the writers made Ward mute as a reference to Black Bolt. But I specifically am ruling out any suggestion that Ward is Black Bolt because that would be ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/90 "2014-05-15T16:52:01Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > No. If the container was at ambient pressure, they were both breathing 3.7 atm air for hours, and would both need decompression. If the container was a pressure vessel, and the air inside was at 1 atm, than she breathed off a nearly empty air bottle at 3.7 atm for a few minutes at most as she ascended, which would not require time in a decompression chamber. And, when Simmons first woke up and Fitz was running down the awfulness of their situation, he said that even if they did get out, they’d be stuck at sea, miles from shore and in need of decompression. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/91 "2014-05-15T17:03:04Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I thought she called him “Sir.” I rewatched it and can confirm what **piccar** wrote, that Flowers doesn’t say “Sir” or use any male pronouns. But the shot of the head from behind and the arm/hand looked very male to my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/92 "2014-05-15T17:05:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Good point about Fury, **JSexton**. I’d forgotten that Simmons was there at the base first. And since Gemma was also there at the base, it’s possible she saw Koenig V2.0 and said, “Didn’t I do an autopsy on you a couple of days ago?” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/93 "2014-05-15T17:33:22Z")
> [@Sean\_Factotum](#): > > And since Gemma was also there at the base, it’s possible she saw Koenig V2.0 and said, “Didn’t I do an autopsy on you a couple of days ago?” If she was wandering around the base without Fury, she **had to** have encountered Koenig V2.0 (great term, BTW). I’ll have to go back and see if there were any reaction shots of her when he walked around the corner. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/94 "2014-05-15T18:04:31Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > Actually, to me it makes perfect sense. Ward has become so psychologically dependent on Garrett that he _needs_ Garrett’s direction. When Garrett says, “Do what _you_ want”, he’s throw adrift, because he hasn’t had a want that wasn’t Garrett’s in the last 15 years. > > Look at the Lost Boys of the Sudan. They often saw their captors kill their family, where sometimes made to do it themselves. But they still bought into what they group was offering, because the group was all they had at that point. > > StG So it’s like Stockholm Syndrome? But in that case, captives are stuck with their captors, whereas Ward was deliberately free as a bird. Unlike the Lost Boys, the world is pretty much Ward’s oyster. He doesn’t need Garrett for anything. He’s got safehouses and money stashed all over the world. He prefers being a lone agent, and Garrett has always been a busy agent with more to do than isolate and brainwash Ward. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My point is that I think it’s possible the writers made Ward mute as a reference to Black Bolt. But I specifically am ruling out any suggestion that Ward is Black Bolt because that would be ridiculous. I know, but someone else upthread mentioned something about Ward being like Skye or something. I was just wondering if they said something in the show that suggested Ward could have alien blood in him or something. I’ll rewatch the ep eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/95 "2014-05-15T18:20:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > So it’s like Stockholm Syndrome? But in that case, captives are stuck with their captors, whereas Ward was deliberately free as a bird. Unlike the Lost Boys, the world is pretty much Ward’s oyster. He doesn’t need Garrett for anything. He’s got safehouses and money stashed all over the world. He prefers being a lone agent, and Garrett has always been a busy agent with more to do than isolate and brainwash Ward. It’s not a physical need, it’s a mental one. Ward tells himself that he’s not an evil person; he’s just a tool being used by evil people like Garrett or his brother. Ward wants to feel trapped because if he admits he could just walk away then he has to accept that he has chosen to stay all the previous years. Ward knows if he refused to kill Fitz and Simmons, he’d then have to ask himself why he hadn’t refused to kill the guards at the Fridge. And if he had refused to kill the guards at the Fridge, he’d have to ask himself why he hadn’t refused to kill Victoria Hand. And it follows the chain all the way back to when he beat up his younger brother because his older brother told him to. Whenever he disobeys the first order, he’s going to have to ask himself why he obeyed all the previous orders. It’s much easier to tell himself that he can’t disobey orders. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/96 "2014-05-15T18:26:29Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > And, when Simmons first woke up and Fitz was running down the awfulness of their situation, he said that even if they did get out, they’d be stuck at sea, miles from shore and in need of decompression. Yeah, it was a pretty big leap that they got out of the pod and to the surface - and instead of dying in the middle of the empty ocean, they found Fury waiting in a helicopter to rescue them. Which kind of raises the question: what was Fury’s plan? Was he just hovering over that spot, hoping that Fitz and Simmons would show up? He must have known they were out in the middle of the ocean. Why didn’t he bring along some diving equipment to pull up a box that was underwater? Or maybe he did. Maybe he was getting ready to pull Fitz and Simmons up to safety when they unexpectedly popped up to the surface. If the two of them had just waiting a few more minutes, they would have been rescued without injuries. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/97 "2014-05-15T18:27:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s not a physical need, it’s a mental one. Ward tells himself that he’s not an evil person; he’s just a tool being used by evil people like Garrett or his brother. Ward wants to feel trapped because if he admits he could just walk away then he has to accept that he has chosen to stay all the previous years. Ward knows if he refused to kill Fitz and Simmons, he’d then have to ask himself why he hadn’t refused to kill the guards at the Fridge. And if he had refused to kill the guards at the Fridge, he’d have to ask himself why he hadn’t refused to kill Victoria Hand. And it follows the chain all the way back to when he beat up his younger brother because his older brother told him to. Whenever he disobeys the first order, he’s going to have to ask himself why he obeyed all the previous orders. It’s much easier to tell himself that he can’t disobey orders. That’s a good interpretation. Ward needs Garrett to shield him from accepting responsibility for his own choices and actions. What a good little Nazi, as Skye pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/98 "2014-05-15T18:53:18Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I know, but someone else upthread mentioned something about Ward being like Skye or something. I was just wondering if they said something in the show that suggested Ward could have alien blood in him or something. I’ll rewatch the ep eventually. That was from Raina’s mindgames to get Ward to let her leave. He told her that he can’t get Skye because she thinks he is a monster. Raina suggests that Skye may turn into a monster, too – so she and Ward can be monsters together. But Ward is referring to Skye thinking he’s a monster on the inside, whereas it is likely that Raina thinking Skye will turn into a monster will be an “outside only” thing. But, of course, Ward can’t think his way through a full sentence, so he fell for her mind-bamboozle. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/99 "2014-05-15T20:00:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s not a physical need, it’s a mental one. Ward tells himself that he’s not an evil person; he’s just a tool being used by evil people like Garrett or his brother. Ward wants to feel trapped because if he admits he could just walk away then he has to accept that he has chosen to stay all the previous years. Ward knows if he refused to kill Fitz and Simmons, he’d then have to ask himself why he hadn’t refused to kill the guards at the Fridge. And if he had refused to kill the guards at the Fridge, he’d have to ask himself why he hadn’t refused to kill Victoria Hand. And it follows the chain all the way back to when he beat up his younger brother because his older brother told him to. Whenever he disobeys the first order, he’s going to have to ask himself why he obeyed all the previous orders. It’s much easier to tell himself that he can’t disobey orders. This makes perfect sense. It’s also why Skyes “you are literally a Nazi” speech hit so close to home, it’s the biggest condemnation of “i was only following orders”. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406/100 "2014-05-16T00:13:15Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon;17376002I was really hoping Skye’s father would be blue. What was up with all the blood? Very weird.[/QUOTE] A damaged, cadaverous hand dripping blood and ichor? I thought for a moment that it was turning in _ **EC** ’s Agents of SHIELD._ > [@Ethilrist](#): > > And, when Simmons first woke up and Fitz was running down the awfulness of their situation, he said that even if they did get out, they’d be stuck at sea, miles from shore and in need of decompression. So what we have is a group of writers who don’t understand the mechanics of compression and decompression. Nothing new. Much like Fitz’s technobabble explaining why a sealed, air-filled box with no space for ballast tanks sank instead of bobbing on the surface. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s01e22-beginning-of-the-end-open-spoilers/688406.md?page=6)