# Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D S02E18 The Frenemy of My Enemy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236 "2015-04-21T23:56:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/41 "2015-04-23T18:42:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And, as I predicted the “Super Special Butterfly that is Skye” will continue to be the focus of the show. The first half of the first season was _awful_, and the biggest complaints were that this was the Marvel Universe with no superpowers, and that Grant Ward was Blandy McBlanders. They’ve rectified both of those complaints in a big way, in a way that was integrated back to the introductions of both Skye and Grant. Skye damn well _better_ continue to be a focus of this show. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/42 "2015-04-23T19:22:58Z")
So when Cal opened the drawer, there were some conspicuous little bottles in it with greenish liquid, presumably whatever formula he used on himself; I genuinely thought that at some point in the find he’d find some moment to shoot up and genuinely Hulk out, maybe for a tussle with Deathlok. But it wasn’t to be… ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/43 "2015-04-23T19:51:47Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > So when Cal opened the drawer, there were some conspicuous little bottles in it with greenish liquid, presumably whatever formula he used on himself; I genuinely thought that at some point in the find he’d find some moment to shoot up and genuinely Hulk out, maybe for a tussle with Deathlok. But it wasn’t to be… I would actually really like to see him go full Mr. Hyde but I’m not sure they could do it in a believable way on the TV budget. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/44 "2015-04-23T19:56:50Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > So when Cal opened the drawer, there were some conspicuous little bottles in it with greenish liquid, presumably whatever formula he used on himself; I genuinely thought that at some point in the find he’d find some moment to shoot up and genuinely Hulk out, maybe for a tussle with Deathlok. But it wasn’t to be… I noticed those too and assumed that was Cal’s Dr Hyde drugs. Of course they would have been sitting there for 20+ years but I think they’ll come into play sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/45 "2015-04-24T10:47:59Z")
**DrDeth** I’m not sure why you’re trying to pick at this particular scab, but quit it. No warning issued, but don’t try stunts like this again to try to make point. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, _Jeffrey_ could have had a building manager. Did he have time to explain this to _Hailey_? > > Yeah, that was interesting what _Charles_ said. > > Yes, _Robert Todd Lincoln_ is playing a odd and secretive game with _Richard_. > > Not sure what _Michael Casper_ is doing there with _Castillo_. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/46 "2015-04-24T14:27:18Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > **DrDeth** I’m not sure why you’re trying to pick at this particular scab, but quit it. > > No warning issued, but don’t try stunts like this again to try to make point. [What scab?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755270) (Question in ATMB) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/47 "2015-04-24T14:49:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And why does May trust Gonzalez? Gonzalez let Coulson do all the hard lifting, didnt do a thing vs HYDRA (even with all those resources), and then rather than just calling Coulson in for a talk about why Coulson thinks he’s the new Director- lies and infiltrates. I think the problem is the show wandered off from its original premise for quite a while. Shield was originally supposed to be about keeping people safe from super-powered threats. The whole Hydra issue put that on the backburner for about a year. So now the series is trying to revive it with things like the Inhuman storyline, the revelation about Bahrain, and Gemma’s xenophobia. Gonzalez and Shield 2 have been brought in to sort of represent this original mission. From their perspective, Coulson appears to be using Shield, an agency that is supposed to locate and contain super-powered threats, as a means of locating super-powered beings but then recruiting them into his own secret group rather than containing them. Even people who know Coulson are suspicious now that they’ve found out about this secret agenda. And who knows? In a show like this, it could turn out they’re right to be suspicious. Maybe that alien bug juice they injected Coulson with has screwed up his brain. Or maybe he’s working under the influence of some secret mind-control device Fury used on him. We could end up finding out that Gonzalez really is the good guy. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/48 "2015-04-24T15:03:00Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > [What scab?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755270) (Question in ATMB) Answered there. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/49 "2015-04-24T15:13:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We could end up finding out that Gonzalez really is the good guy. Somehow I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/50 "2015-04-24T15:43:24Z")
Hasn’t Coulson gone from trying to protect super powered people from society or whatever and started recruiting them instead because of the Hydra snafu? I remember in the early episodes he would recruit and send them away because “we can help you, we can protect you”, but then Hydra happened and he can’t anymore. And now there is no where safe for them to go other than with him, so he’s less building an army and more protecting them the only way he knows how ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/51 "2015-04-24T16:00:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They had the scene where List was telling some offscreen observers that they had captured somebody and that person had died during testing. They showed the body and it was Ethan, who we had seen in the previous episode. Thanks. I’d forgotten that. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/52 "2015-04-24T17:11:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We could end up finding out that Gonzalez really is the good guy. I’ve never thought Gonzales WASN’T a good guy. Same as Talbot. Antagonists aren’t necessarily bad guys. If anything I could see this as the means to re-establish a SHIELD organization in the MCU that can function as a larger story-element and remove Coulson from the Director’s chair so the show can go back to the original formula. It’s a means for a tonal reboot. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/53 "2015-04-24T17:44:24Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I’ve never thought Gonzales WASN’T a good guy. Same as Talbot. If Gonzales is a Good Guy, then why was he sitting on his ass with a aircraft carrier and a hundred or so agents, while Coulson was fighting HYDRA with not even a tenth of that? I still wanna know what the fuck Gonzales was doing all that time. Sudoku? Crochet? If Gonzales is a Good Guy then why not have a sit down with Coulson rather than infiltrate and lie? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/54 "2015-04-24T18:08:19Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Somehow I doubt it. I’ll admit it’s unlikely. But keep in mind this is the same show that had Grant Ward working as a Shield agent for most of a season before revealing his secret identity. We can’t rule out the possibility of a Big Reveal here. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/55 "2015-04-24T18:10:59Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I’ve never thought Gonzales WASN’T a good guy. Same as Talbot. > Antagonists aren’t necessarily bad guys. True but I was thinking more along the lines of him being a good guy within the narrative. Somebody that we might end up wanting to see win out over Coulson. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/56 "2015-04-24T18:17:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If Gonzales is a Good Guy, then why was he sitting on his ass with a aircraft carrier and a hundred or so agents, while Coulson was fighting HYDRA with not even a tenth of that? I still wanna know what the fuck Gonzales was doing all that time. Sudoku? Crochet? First- Do we know that they didn’t? Second- I imagine they were otherwise occupied fixing the carrier and reorganizing after their umbrella organization was dismantled. I still hope there is confirmation that Gonzales’ faction is tacitly approved by the World Security Organization otherwise–most of this world doesn’t make sense. > [@DrDeth](#): > > If Gonzales is a Good Guy then why not have a sit down with Coulson rather than infiltrate and lie? Because Gonzales THINKS Coulson is a bad guy or at the least compromised. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/57 "2015-04-24T18:27:04Z")
The WSO was decapitated along with SHIELD. I don’t think they would have had the chance to replace everybody and make policy decisions of that magnitude. Maybe Jenny Agutter just made the calls herself while all the chaos was happening. I would seriously like them to devote a couple of hours (maybe in a podcast) to explaining exactly _how_ the carrier has been funded since it dropped off the network. Ditto Our Heroes. They were down to staying in cheap motels at one point. Do all the hidden SHIELD facilities have a few million dollars lying around for emergencies? (Actually, that wouldn’t be a bad idea.) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/58 "2015-04-24T20:12:40Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > In the army base they took care with 33 to make sure her body was covered with a big jacket or loose clothing so you couldn’t see that the only thing matching was the face. Unless she’s wearing a body suit of some kind there’s no way you couldn’t tell 33’s body didn’t match Couslon’s face. But I suppose they could have prepared a body suit. There’s no way that was 33’s hands. I looked pretty carefully. Could have been Fitz I guess, maybe even Sparkplug. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/59 "2015-04-26T21:47:14Z")
What loose ends need to be tied up before Age of Ultron? They have one episode to do it. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236/60 "2015-04-26T22:34:30Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > What loose ends need to be tied up before Age of Ultron? They have one episode to do it. None, unless Coulson is going to show up in the movie. I don’t think he is, though. And even if he does, nothing big. They may share a universe, but they’re not that tied in. If anything, one’ll be asking the same question as one did during the last Thor or CA or whatever - where were all the others? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-s02e18-the-frenemy-of-my-enemy/718236.md?page=4)