# Ages acceptable to refer to women as "girls?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2010, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633 "2010-06-10T09:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/61 "2010-06-14T16:30:47Z")
From _I Love Lucy_ Ethel) The ad says “girls” Lucy) _We’re_ girls Ethel) We are? Lucy) If you divide the world into boys and girls, we’re girls. …And now back to your regularly scheduled thread ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/62 "2010-06-14T16:31:21Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > To be mildly serious, I actually do agree with him. It’s more about maturity and life experience than age. Let’s say there’s some frat boy getting trashed at a bar. Would you call him a boy? ETA: Heh, obviously outside of the “frat **boy** ” context–not the full phrase, just “boy.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/63 "2010-06-14T16:34:25Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > From _I Love Lucy_ > > Ethel) The ad says “girls” > Lucy) _We’re_ girls > Ethel) We are? > Lucy) If you divide the world into boys and girls, we’re girls. That’s just the problem, though. Too often, “girls” isn’t being used in the context of “divid[ing] the world into boys and girls,” but rather men are men but women are girls. It’s condescending and demeaning. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/64 "2010-06-14T16:35:28Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Let’s say there’s some frat boy getting trashed at a bar. Would you call him a boy? Sure as hell ain’t a man. I actually don’t use boy when addressing someone, precisely because of the derogatory connotation. I use kid more often than not, even for people age 20+ who don’t act all that mature. Girl isn’t quite as derogatory to me, although I would probably only use it when I know the person and mean it affectionately. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/65 "2010-06-14T16:39:05Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Sure as hell ain’t a man. > > I actually don’t use boy when addressing someone, precisely because of the derogatory connotation. I use kid more often than not, even for people age 20+ who don’t act all that mature. Girl isn’t quite as derogatory to me, although I would probably only use it when I know the person and mean it affectionately. That’s the annoying part about the fact that there are three universally accepted terms for males: man, guy, and boy. “Guy” can be used to describe a male of pretty much any age, either informally or because he’s acting immature. Women only get two words: woman and girl. Yeah, there’s “gal” and “chick,” but they’re not universally accepted like “guy” is. Personally, I kind of use “guy” generically, especially in the plural. “Guys” can refer to a group of males, a group of females, or a mixed group. But I know a lot of women don’t like to be lumped in with “guys.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/66 "2010-06-14T16:41:13Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > Personally, I kind of use “guy” generically, especially in the plural. “Guys” can refer to a group of males, a group of females, or a mixed group. But I know a lot of women don’t like to be lumped in with “guys.” Same here. I’ll use guys when talking about a group of anyone, regardless of the gender of the individuals. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/67 "2010-06-14T19:21:57Z")
I have a much older coworker who constantly refers to all of us as “the girls.” Yeah, we’re all female, but when I hear an officeful of women being called “the girls” it just infuriates me. It sounds horribly old-fashioned in a not-nice way…“the girls” get coffee, “the girls” provide pleasant scenery for the men, etc. Of course she’s totally condescending about _everything_, which doesn’t help when _she_ uses a term that is in and of itself condescending to my ears. I voted for only underage, but I can live with “girls night out” and stuff like that depending on the situation. Otherwise, forget it. I’m not a girl. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/68 "2010-06-14T19:40:38Z")
I, like **whiterabbit** , positively _bristle_ when I hear male coworkers calling us all “girls”. We are _not_. We may, if you know us really well and we know where you are coming from, accept it out of affection. But 99.9% of the time it’s not affection, it’s condescension. I am a girl when I want to be, and it’s in the privacy of my own house and with my friends. At work especially, I am a woman, and please remain professional and refer to me as such. …Ladies is OK. I am OK with ladies. And I am perfectly OK with “young lady” if you are at least 30 years older than me and not working with me - i.e, some old man at the grocery store for example. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/69 "2010-06-14T20:15:18Z")
Wiliam Safire did a marvelous series of “On Language” columns on this very subject in the early 1970’s, and concluded: 1. Girl are underaged; grownups are women. 2. Neither girl nor woman is an adjective. Don’t say “woman doctor.” The correct term is “female doctor.” 3. Only use “female” if it is necessary. Femaler doctor Jane Smith is unnecessary–who is going to think Jane is a male? Female doctor Chris Smith is okay. Years later Safire used the phrase “woman executive Joanne Smith” and got letters about it. He said the correct word was female and it was not necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/70 "2010-06-14T20:23:33Z")
“female” as an adjective is so goddamn clinical, though. I’m sadly reconciled to “woman” (and even, gag, “women”) as an adjective - least it doesn’t sound like I’m trying to breed them. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/71 "2010-06-14T20:27:04Z")
Funny '“male” is used as an adjective without the clinical connotation. “Man nurse Chris Smith” sounds ridiculous. “Male nurse” sounds fine. And of course “male nurse Bill Smith” is unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/72 "2010-06-14T20:48:20Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Female doctor Chris Smith is okay. These days, \*that \*would probably be frowned upon, too, unless it’s relevant to the story whether Dr. Smith is male or female (which it probably isn’t). ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/73 "2010-06-14T20:59:47Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Funny '“male” is used as an adjective without the clinical connotation. “Man nurse Chris Smith” sounds ridiculous. “Male nurse” sounds fine. And of course “male nurse Bill Smith” is unnecessary. “Male nurse” sounds as bad to me as “female doctor.” It singles them out because it implies that this is supposed to be unusual. There are plenty of male nurses and female doctors these days–neither is an oddity. I think the only time you should refer to the gender of a professional is if it’s relevant (for example, “Mary requested a female doctor,” or “Get a couple of male nurses to help lift this overweight patient out of bed.”) Even that last one is iffy–it should probably more properly be “Get a couple of strong nurses…” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/74 "2010-06-14T21:08:22Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > Even that last one is iffy–it should probably more properly be “Get a couple of strong nurses…” Yes, it should, unless they’re expected to do the lifting with their genitals. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/75 "2010-06-15T00:41:40Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Yes, it should, unless they’re expected to do the lifting with their genitals. I’m pretty sure that only happens in porn. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/76 "2010-06-15T02:00:33Z")
The crazy part is, **Anaamika** , that the coworker in question is a) a woman, which I wasn’t clear about, and b) plenty old enough to have heard “the girls” from male bosses at some point in her life with all the nasty implications…yet she uses it herself. Gaaaaaah! It’s called feminism! Cut it out! I’m half your age and I’m telling you this is not okay anymore. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/77 "2010-06-15T02:35:54Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > The crazy part is, **Anaamika** , that the coworker in question is a) a woman, which I wasn’t clear about, and b) plenty old enough to have heard “the girls” from male bosses at some point in her life with all the nasty implications…yet she uses it herself. Gaaaaaah! It’s called feminism! Cut it out! I’m half your age and I’m telling you this is not okay anymore. Really. Just because she’s female that doesn’t mean she’s a feminist, especially if she’s older. I know women in my parents’ generation who are firmly convinced that the man should be the decision maker in the household and that the President naturally ought to be a man. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/78 "2010-06-15T12:57:56Z")
Well, yes, I know. I get a surprising number of women who give me their husband’s name when I ask for their name to put on their reservation, and most of them are older. (If I get married, the first person to call me Mrs. Husband’s First and Last _dies a slow and painful death._) It’s just you’d think she’d notice the way we tend to cringe when she does it. Times have changed! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/79 "2010-06-15T15:47:05Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > I’m pretty sure that only happens in porn. I can dream. ☹ > [@whiterabbit](#): > > If I get married, the first person to call me Mrs. Husband’s First and Last _dies a slow and painful death._ I think I might go the Miss Manners route of a very icy, “Excuse me?” ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633/80 "2010-06-15T18:10:42Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > when girls go wild, they show their boobs. When women go wild, men end up dead. 😉 HA! 🙂 That is all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ages-acceptable-to-refer-to-women-as-girls/542633.md?page=3)