# "Aggressive Harassment?" Get ticket--pay fine--write "fuck your shitty town, bitches"--get arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033 "2013-06-14T23:47:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/21 "2013-06-17T13:02:23Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > They sent me to Viet Nam. What the hell else could they do to me? Well, if you wrote “Fuck Jimmy” on your form like **Washoe** did I guess they could make “Jimmy” your commanding officer. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/22 "2013-06-17T13:25:10Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > A driver travels at excessive speeds on city streets, Actually, driver is _alleged_ to have traveled at excessive speeds on city streets. I think. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/23 "2013-06-17T13:28:12Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Actually, driver is _alleged_ to have traveled at excessive speeds on city streets. I think. As per the OP, he pled guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/24 "2013-06-17T13:34:50Z")
I’m finding it fairly tough to work up much sympathy for the guy, though this probably should have been treated as a contempt issue. > [@BubbaDog](#): > > Well, if you wrote “Fuck Jimmy” on your form like **Washoe** did I guess they could make “Jimmy” your commanding officer. If Washoe had been drafted, [Jimmy would have been his commanding officer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter). Well, at a bit of a remove. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/25 "2013-06-17T13:45:19Z")
Cue Sam Malone’s voice: You know those clerks of the court. A bunch of winey little bitches. IMO the worst the guy should have got was a letter like “if we pushed the letter of the law we could bust you. We suggest you don’t do this again”. Some folks down at the courthouse need to grow a pair or two. Maybe Senor Testiculo could come up north and give a seminar or something. And as a local taxpayer I’d be mad as hell. We’ve all heard about how all these people in the legal/law system are overworked/overwhelmed/underpaid. And how many man hours were wasted on this stupidity? A classic case of testosterone (and probably some offended estrogen) poisoning resulting in a “respect ma autority” response. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/26 "2013-06-17T13:59:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > As per the OP, he pled guilty. You are correct. (I think paying the ticket without requesting a trial is an admission anyway?) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/27 "2013-06-17T14:03:16Z")
yeah, I fail to see how this law does not violate the first amendment in this context. “Fuck You” is a commonly used generic insult, not an expression of real intent to commit actual violence (or love long time) upon another person. However, this is the court’s revenge by means of the “OJ Defence”; you may win in the long run, but it’ll cost you a shitload in lawyer fees. meanwhile, the town’s cost is apid for by property tax payers… and speeders. No skin off the civil servants’ collective butt. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/28 "2013-06-17T15:17:33Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > yeah, I fail to see how this law does not violate the first amendment in this context. “Fuck You” is a commonly used generic insult, not an expression of real intent to commit actual violence (or love long time) upon another person. > > However, this is the court’s revenge by means of the “OJ Defence”; you may win in the long run, but it’ll cost you a shitload in lawyer fees. meanwhile, the town’s cost is apid for by property tax payers… and speeders. No skin off the civil servants’ collective butt. Harassment does not have to be a threat of physical violence. In fact that is often a different statute (in my state, Terroristic Threats). Insulting someone can certainly be harassment. The way our statute is written just that statement may not be enough without “repeatedly committed acts.” The NY statute seems to be more loosely written. To me the issue does not seem to be the 1st amendment. Free Speech is not absolute. You can certainly be convicted of harassment for just words. The main problem I see is who is the victim? You can’t harass a town government or a faceless public entity. It has to be a person. So they would have to prove that someone was annoyed or alarmed (like a court clerk), that it was his intent to harass and that the victim’s alarm was reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/29 "2013-06-17T15:27:02Z")
Interesting point Loach, but he did call them bitches and so he “harrassed” all of the town workers. If he had just wrote “Fuck your shitty town.” then he’s not actually calling out anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/30 "2013-06-17T17:19:02Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > “Bitches” is generally considered a gender-based insult, and at least one female employee was probably involved in processing the payment. What’s interesting, if this line of analysis is to be pursued, is that it is the male gender is being insulted, albeit with an insulting word in other contexts for women. I think, but cannot be sure, that the driver is calling a group of men, or in his mind primarily men, an old and understood insult specifically for them. I can see a room full of men and women testifying as to who is more harassed by being called a bitch… ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/31 "2013-06-26T04:02:01Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Harassment does not have to be a threat of physical violence. In fact that is often a different statute (in my state, Terroristic Threats). Insulting someone can certainly be harassment. The way our statute is written just that statement may not be enough without “repeatedly committed acts.” The NY statute seems to be more loosely written. To me the issue does not seem to be the 1st amendment. Free Speech is not absolute. You can certainly be convicted of harassment for just words. The main problem I see is who is the victim? You can’t harass a town government or a faceless public entity. It has to be a person. So they would have to prove that someone was annoyed or alarmed (like a court clerk), that it was his intent to harass and that the victim’s alarm was reasonable. My problem with this law, along with obstruction of justice and resisting arrest, is that it is so vague as it doesn’t put a citizen on notice as to what is allowed and what isn’t. Surely voicing my displeasure at someone is constitutionally protected even though it may “annoy” that person. Even though the guy used profanity and insulting words, they aren’t the type that would create “imminent lawless action” because he did it through mail from hundreds of miles away. If this is a good law, they every poster in the Pit should be tracked by their IP address and charged under this law. If not, it needs repealed or clarified because it is ripe for abuse. ---
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/32 "2013-06-27T00:23:23Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > Every year, when I do my taxes, I get creative with my profession. Things like fruit fly washer or whorehouse piano player. Additionally, I make any checks out to ‘the damned IRS.’ Never had a problem, complaint, arrest and the checks always get cashed. I always write “Waiter” in the occupation field. I keep wondering if they’ll ever ask me why I don’t report tips. Tips? My waiting consists of watching the mailbox on the 15th of each month looking for my Social Security check. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/33 "2013-06-27T02:16:20Z")
I’m terrified of writing something not true on my taxes, why do you guys play around with your occupation, isn’t it a felony to knowingly put false information on your taxes? Or am I missing something and this is just a “thing” I’ve never heard of? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/34 "2013-06-27T02:30:23Z")
I once heard a supposedly true story of a professional pest exterminator who regularly wrote “hired killer” in the ‘occupation’ field. Internal Revenue never batted an eyelash. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/35 "2013-06-27T05:20:49Z")
Am I reading this wrong? From the article “The statute of “aggravated harassment” states that it is a misdemeanor to act “with intent to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm” someone “anonymously or otherwise, by telephone, be telegraph, or by mail, or by transmitting or delivering any other form of written communication, in a manner likely to cause annoyance or alarm.”” The way I read this the courts themselves could be charged for sending him a letter in the first place. There is no way in hell the people writing that letter to him didn’t know he was going to be annoyed by it. ---
**Author:** ![tralfamidor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@tralfamidor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tralfamidor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/36 "2013-06-27T07:23:57Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > No. But Mr Barboza was charged with “aggravated harassment.” According to the article linked in the OP: Annoyance or alarm? It’s a crime to intentionally annoy somebody? I think I’ll go to my fallout shelter now for the next thirty years so I won’t accidentally commit a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/37 "2013-06-27T09:01:19Z")
> [@tralfamidor](#): > > Annoyance or alarm? It’s a crime to intentionally annoy somebody? > > I think I’ll go to my fallout shelter now for the next thirty years so I won’t accidentally commit a crime. It really winds me up when you write stuff like that :mad: ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/38 "2013-06-27T16:27:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > You are correct. (I think paying the ticket without requesting a trial is an admission anyway?) I’ve only gotten one speeding ticket, and it wasn’t in New York, but it gave me three options (these were actually checkboxes on the ‘mail in with all yo moneys’ section of the ticket): 1. Plead Not Guilty, and request a trial 2. Plead Guilty, and pay the fine 3. Plead No Contest, and pay the fine Option three (which I selected) is pretty clearly not an admission of guilt - I assumed that some court intern somewhere had to fill out some paperwork that declared that I’d been found guilty and fined the amount I’d already sent in, but I don’t actually know. If New York functions similarly, I imagine the man was entering a plea of “No Contest And Fuck You”. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/39 "2013-06-27T16:52:22Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > I once heard a supposedly true story of a professional pest exterminator who regularly wrote “hired killer” in the ‘occupation’ field. Internal Revenue never batted an eyelash. Maybe next year i will fill in “L33t H4xx0r” ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033/40 "2013-06-27T19:37:26Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Lemme make a speculative WAG: > > Send in your traffic ticket with payment: You send it to the court, and it gets processed by the court staff. Writing Fuck You on ticket is thus addressed to the court, and is seen as Contempt of Court. Maybe 12 or 13 years ago, I got summoned for jury duty at a Very Bad Time. I was the general manager of a restaurant, and I was down a couple of assistants, so I was pulling a lot more hours than I should have been. Taking time away for jury duty was simply not an option. When I sent in my response form, I wrote a note explaining the situation. I used this [notepad](http://img0.etsystatic.com/005/0/5660090/il_fullxfull.387186988_qikj.jpg) (the one on the left). Some court clerk called my boss (the owner of my company) to confirm my story, and was apparently quite put out by my choice of stationary, saying it was “very disrespectful to the judge.” I figure the clerk decided to get snooty, and no judge ever even saw it. And they excused me anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aggressive-harassment-get-ticket-pay-fine-write-fuck-your-shitty-town-bitches-get-arrested/661033.md?page=3)