Maybe the panhandlers in NYC get paid better since there are so many more people around? No need to be aggressive - there is plenty to go around. I dunno.
I agree that giving panhandlers money only encourages that behavior. If you are uncomfortable being directly charitable, when asked, simply say “I can’t help you.” That way you are not telling a lie, you are not judging or dehumanizing by ignoring, and there is nothing to challenge.
It will probably be changing, in the 9th circuit anti-panhandling laws were struck down years ago and post Reed v. Town of Gilbert all existing anti-panhandling laws will only hold until challenged as content-based laws are “presumptively unconstitutional".
https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docketfiles/14-428.htm
Snap! I got done in Chicago in a similar way a couple of months back!
Data point.
I was in the US for two months, one of which was spent in a variety of big cities (LA, Chicago, Cleveland, Boston, Albany, New York). Got panhandled “aggressively” on four occasions. Definition of aggressive idiosyncratic to my story is where I was directly singled out for attention, in contrast to the beggar sitting passively cross-legged on a piece of cardboard with a sign.
First was a guy in Holbrook CA. I was outside a dodgy laundromat, he was drunk and wanted to borrow my mobile phone to make a call. I said no.
Second was the Chicago guy. He was simply a con artist. Saw I had shiny shoes. Offered, with great charm, a shine. I declined. Then he flattered me about how nice my shoes were, told me he had been doing this “for years”, then asked, if I didn’t mind, if he could offer me a tip to keep my shoes clean. He was going to tell me about the best product to use. I politely paid attention. He lent forward as if to examine the shoes and before I knew it he had with a well-practised skill squirted goo on them and started to show me how to polish them. In the course of patter about how good the stuff was he mentioned in passing that the shine was going to cost $16 a shoe. I let him go for a moment, then said “$32 for a shine? Get lost.” He protested and I gave him $5 because I am a sucker and no doubt that is the sort of money he was really expecting. God knows what the goo was. Actually damaged the shine, but then I didn’t let him finish. I suspect it was dish liquid.
Third was a bloke in Boston. Picked on a feature of mine that allowed him to engage in a conversation (he was walking on the street, not sitting cross-legged on cardboard). In this case it was a hat I was wearing. Turned on a thorough charm offensive, and when I was engaged, turned and put the bite on me for money. I gave him a few bucks because I am a sucker and he was engaging and charming.
Fourth was a guy in New York, standing on a street corner purporting to collect for the homeless. He had the air of a righteous zealot and had a manifest huge chip on his shoulder. He was talking up to anyone who would listen about how important his issue was, and then demanded money, specifically from me. I said no. He said “That’s cause I’m black right?” (He was black and I am not). I was pissed off by that casual racism that I ignored him and walked on. Yes homelessness is an important issue, but there are beggars seeking cash for important issues every 10 feet in NY and you can’t give to them all. To suggest that my refusal in his specific case was racist was an attempt to manipulate me that I did not appreciate.
So is this rate of hit-ups for money more or less consistent with most Americans’ experience? Clearly I looked like a tourist - no matter what you wear, they can sniff out the subtle differences in dress and demeanour even before you open your accent- laden mouth - but allowing for that, is my strike rate of attracting beggars about right?
I say, “Sorry, I don’t smoke”. It takes a few seconds for that to sink in. Then, they are usually laughing at me because they think I’m stupid. By that time, it’s too late to harass me.
Thanks for the honest response. I will say that when I was younger I used to feel more compassion for the homeless & would sometimes give money, etc. However, now that I’m asked for $ sometimes up to 3-4 times a week (instead of only roughly once every couple of months, if less) it makes me more irritated with the situation. I.e., if someone asks you for money rarely you may not be in that bad of a mood & may say no in a nice way. However, if it happens 3-4 times in a short period of time, by the 2nd-3rd-4th time you’re sick of it.
I’ve also notice a lot more entitlement among panhandlers than in the past. For example, years ago I gave a panhandler some money (not much, since I don’t carry much cash), and he said, “That’s it?” Needless to say, I didn’t give him any more.
Yes, looking like a tourist may have at least something to do with this.
However, it happens to me where I live as well - and I’m not a tourist in the area I live in.
Exactly! As someone who has traveled all over (but hadn’t been to NYC since I was a kid in the '80’s), my trip to NYC last summer was a real eye-opener re: the lack of aggressive panhandlers. I was truly amazed, especially since most of the other West Coast cities I had been to had these people coming out of the woodwork. Conversely, in NYC the panhandlers walked around carrying signs (or were on the subway), and they were very easily ignored. I also noticed scammers in NYC (i.e., the old “CD” scam, etc.) but these folks were easily avoided as well.
Again, it’s truly incredible that a city that has such a huge population & a lot of tourists (especially in the summer months) does not have the issues that many west coast cities have re: aggressive panhandlers. Again, whatever NYC has instituted to curb aggressive panhandling really works, and it’s fantastic.
Note that I’m 100% aware that NYC had a lot of crime/panhandling issues in the '70’s & '80’s. However, again, they’ve cleaned things up a lot since then. I.e., if you watch the iconic DeNiro film Taxi Driver (1976), Times Square was basically a sewer at that time & very dangerous as well. However, when I was in Times Square last year it was very safe - it had changed so much it was unbelievable.
Also wanted to note that in NYC I felt safe walking around in most areas even late at night.
What we occasionally get around here is people hanging out on the median at intersections and asking stopped cars for money. One locality decided to install signs at those spots asking people to not give beggars money. It remains to be seen whether that is effective.
But, how are local firemen supposed to fill their boots?
I met a bum on the street of Vegas about twenty years ago now. He asked for twenty buck to buy lunch, I told him I didn’t have much so no. He could eat in a casino for cheap and didn’t need twenty for that. He said how about five bucks for coffee, I told him coffee doesn’t cost five bucks. He asked if I had a spare cigarette, so I gave him one and had one while I talked to him. His voice changed when we talked, he had a wife and two kids, they owned a home in Vegas and he made more begging than he could make working for eight hours a day so he dressed up in his workclothes at night and went out and panhandled. He said he makes between thirty five and forty grand a year, people there in Vegas are usually pretty generous. He was a very nice person, a working class person who found it was more beneficial to beg than to work a job and have to get assistance to make ends meet.
I also met two real street people there waiting for a bus where I decided to not finish walking to the downtown from the strip because my feet were sore. I was still a mile from downtown. They were some real nice guys, they were eating some nachos and cheese they had bought from a place close to the bus stop. They said they are not bums anymore, they are doing much better when they were working handing out flyers for the brothels to people on the strip and downtown. They could afford nachos now and they had free bus passes so they could ride the bus to work different sections. They were kind of comical, friendly and definitely high on life now that they had a real job. They did not look like drunks or druggies either, neither did the first guy I talked to.
Most of the people on the street are just ordinary people, some wanted to leave the ratrace, some lost everything, some are not smart enough to hold regular employment, the new society does not have jobs for people who are a little retarded. So they wind up out there. It used to me small factories would hire a couple of slow people to work as janitors in their areas or they put them doing simple factory work at a lower rate so they could still make a living even though it cost more to train them and keep them than they produced. Now more and more factories just say no, and there are not really that many factories anymore that have jobs for these people. So they wind up on the streets.
I think we royally messed up our society, forty years ago it was a lot better than now.
There’s a panhandler been working the Medical District near downtown Dallas the past couple of years, an old man in a wheelchair with more physical and mental problems than God would allow if there was a God, but he can be pretty obnoxious in spite of it all. I was working down there during the summer near his favorite median when two cops pulled up in a van, picked him up chair and all, loaded him up and drove away. It kinda bothered me but half an hour later they came back, pulled into a parking lot, dropped him off with several bottles of water and a bag full of burgers and fries.
Why is this in GD?
How much time would you say this is taking out of your life? Upwards of 30 seconds per week? I don’t know that it’s all that healthy to spend 1000% more time being angry about it.
I haven’t seen a squeegee man in decades.
Back in the 70s and 80s, they were a real problem. Some guy would smear a filthy rag over your windshield, then demand money to clean it up. If you weren’t careful, some of them would reach into your car, if the windows were open, and try to grab stuff.
I was driving a yellow cab back then and I hated them. Driving around in a cab, especially at night, was pretty much the same as displaying a huge sign on your car saying “I have a lot of cash.”
Prime spots were at the foot of the Queensboro Bridge (Manhattan side), the intersection of Bowery and Houston (this one was especially bad – this was back when the Bowery was lined with flophouses), and a couple of spots on Broadway.
It was horrible. I’d be driving down Bowery, say, heading downtown. As I approached the intersection of Houston, I’d see a dozen or more skells standing on the corners. I would hope that the light wouldn’t turn red when I got to the intersection, because if it did, and I had to stop, they’d mob the car. One thing I would do was turn on the wipers – this would discourage them a bit. But not enough. Then they’d just come to my window and demand (not ask for) money.
It really was like something out of Taxi Driver, which is, except for the Travis Bickle character, pretty much a documentary of NYC in those days.
I’m not nostalgic for the old New York. Well, not everything about it. It had its good points.
I’ve never been aggressively panhandled in my life unless you count the once or twice the person pretended not to get my “no” and asked again but then politely left when I confirmed the “no”. In fact, the past year or so the panhandling has become what I consider “nicer” but maybe that’s a function of where I’ve been panhandled. In Florida they tend to start off with a sob-story spiel about how they lost their job and need something to eat or money for gas etc. which wastes everyone’s time since I won’t give regardless: the story may or may not be true. But I haven’t been panhandled in Florida for awhile. In Salt Lake City and London there were more panhandlers per capita but IME they just get straight to the point and say “got any change” and then leave or let you move on it you say no, which is refreshingly efficient.
Man, you are a New Yorker. I’ve wondered how localized that term is. Does anyone know it outside of Brooklyn and Queens?
I don’t see the aggressive panhandling anymore in NYC. An occasional guy at a stop light with a sign detailing his woes, maybe. There are certain places where you’ll find guys selling newspapers and water at stoplights but they aren’t aggressive and it comes in handy sometimes. Once , back in the squeegee guy days, I realized I had forgotten to run an errand before I headed home, so I gave a squeegee guy 10 bucks and sent him into the drugstore to buy tampons. I half expected him to just run off with the money but he came back. With the product. And change, although I told him to keep it.
But, more and more, the homeless aren’t panhandling and the panhandlers aren’t homeless. Most of them aren’t straight up panhandling, they sell candy or earbuds or perform music and dance routines.
The last time I gave a panhandler money he straight up told me “Dude, I’m not going to lie. I just want to buy a beer.” I gave him the $1.00 I had in my pocket and wished him luck. I’ve noticed a lot more panhandlers in the Little Rock area in the last two years. It seems like there’s a panhandler on every busy intersection in the city at times. There’s one I see regularly downtown who asks me for money every single time I see him. I wonder if he actually recognizes me but he just asks out of habit anyway.
I did have one panhandler at a gas station tell me he just got out of jail and needed cash to get home. I wasn’t sure if he was just trying to intimidate me or not but I refused to give him money. Another time at that same gas station I told a panhandler I didn’t have cash and he politely informed me there was an ATM inside. I don’t go to that gas station anymore.
Ha-ha-ha. This is what’s wrong with the law today.
In response to the discussion about homelessness, I hear a lot of arguments about how they could just go and buy drugs with the money you give them. Yes, they could go and buy drugs. And yes, they might end off worse than before or even become more withdrawn into their drug habits until they commit serious crimes.
However, I think it’s important to consider the entire cost-benefit analysis that goes in to the decision to give away money and not just one negative possibility. They might really need food or protection from the cold wrath of the outdoors while the United States tortures them. The possibility of drug use and the possibility of wise spending should be considered together. Often, one compute these cost-benefit analyses non-verbally, based on a wealth of sensory input such as the way the homeless person is acting. If I see a withered old man with a beard, I’m more likely to give money than if I see a pepped up 20-something-year-old who looks like he wants a quick freebie.
Yet I will agree that simply handing out money is a sub-optimal solution. What would be interesting is if we changed our money system. Imagine having “green money” and “blue money.” The green money would be used to buy essential commodities, such as food and basic shelter. The blue money could be used to purchase luxury items – computers, television, microwaves, CD players, and so on. Or imagine that we changed the way citizens earned money. Do we really need to shell out thousands of dollars on tuition if academic achievement makes us better and more informed citizens? Must we labor for hours on end to earn a medical device we need for basic functioning?
People have different views about giving to the homeless, but the point is that there’s more to it than simply saying it’s wrong. This does not directly address the OP’s concerns about so-called aggressive begging, but systematic solutions to alleviate real suffering should be explored.
I saw the valet ticket guy scam in San Francisco 10 years ago - in fact there were signs up warning people not to give these guys money and that they just needed to stuff their money into the machine or receptacle that takes the money.
I go back to the economic conditions in this country. We all look at the data showing that our economy is lower than it has been since the 1990s and other data as reassurance that everything’s fine. The reality is that the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer and more desperate and the middle class is getting squeezed. Even among those who are ‘employed’, more and more people are getting their daily bread from unstable work that can disappear quickly. We might look around and see new stores opening and lines at our favorite restaurants, but it just makes the people who are really poor and struggling increasingly invisible.
If beggars annoy you, just avoid them. And on top of that, give to your favorite charity and vote for people and policies who/that are going to create a fairer and more economically stable society.
My benchmark is a guy who came up to me when I was pumping gas into my rental car in Concord, CA. He told me he had just cycled down from [wherever] and asked me to buy him a hot dog. He was smart enough to realize that I couldn’t just walk away while I was pumping gas. I thought at one point that I would need to push the “HELP” button at the pump and get the store clerk to call the cops. He followed me around each side of the car explaining why I needed to buy him a hot dog.
As far as the homeless being camped out somewhere…Key West. At certain times of the year, you can drive into Key West and see hundreds of them camped out (just lying around, I guess) after the bridge. I was gobsmacked.
Not for me, but when I’m anywhere that has panhandlers, I cultivate the foreboding facial expression of a middle-aged white guy who won’t cough up any money. Works like a charm- very rarely approached, and when I am, I just say “Sorry, no.” and leave it at that.
Although there was one time I was trying to figure something out on my car, and was preoccupied with my plans later in the evening with my girlfriend, and some dude came up to me, and I just sort of waved him off with “No thank you.”, which really pissed him off. His angry yelling calmed the fuck down when I said “Do you want me to call the cops and say you’re assaulting me?”