# Agnostic movies
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [June 13, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128 "2004-06-13T15:51:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/1 "2004-06-13T15:51:23Z")
Let me begin this thread by explaining what I mean by agnostic. It may or may not have anything to do with religion, but has something to do with the supernatural in some way. For purposes of this thread, an agnostic film is one in which the religious, supernatural, or fantastical is a major part of the plot, but by the end of the film we are left undecided as to whether a more mundane explanation would do.
Harry Potter is not agnostic. Clearly magic works in those movies.
The Fisher King is not agnostic. All of the fantastic elements are clearly delusions.
Big Fish is a good example. While fantastic stories are told, we can never be sure if they actually happened, or ars simply tall tales. Another good example might be The Third Miracle. We never truly know if the Hand of the Almighty was at work, or if there is a stream of mere coincidences enhanced by wishful thinking. And The Messenger – who knows if Joan of Arc got her sword via divine intervention, or if, as the Dustin Hoffman character suggests, it came to her via one of many possible mundane ways?
So what are some other agnostic movies?
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### Author:  [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/2 "2004-06-13T16:03:12Z")
I think you could count [Unbreakable](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0217869/).
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/3 "2004-06-13T16:19:55Z")
> [@kellner](#):
>
> I think you could count [Unbreakable](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0217869/).
Oh, yeah. I forgot that one. Excellent example.
I was also thinking Adaptation, but I can’t remember enough of it to say definitively.
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### Author:  [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/4 "2004-06-13T16:23:10Z")
**American Psycho**
There have been countless debates as to whether or not Patrick Bateman actually killed anybody or he just made everything up. Even he’s not sure.
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### Author:  [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/5 "2004-06-13T16:32:43Z")
Check out [Frailty](http://imdb.com/title/tt0264616/). I think that fits the bill.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/6 "2004-06-13T16:41:08Z")
Ingmar Bergman’s _Winter Light_. As in many Bergman movies, the problem isn’t whether God exists, the problem is that he’s absent.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/7 "2004-06-13T17:05:52Z")
_Contact_, in which the main character is agnostic, contains a lengthy scene at the end for which there is no proof it happened (any more would be a spoiler, though by now I’m guessing most have seen it).
Not a movie yet, but the entire novel _Life of Pi_ would seem perfectly made for your description (did it happen or didn’t it).
Jimmy Stewart’s classic _Harvey_: does he really see a 7 foot tall rabbit or not?
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/8 "2004-06-13T18:03:14Z")
> [@Sampiro](#):
>
> _Contact_, in which the main character is agnostic, contains a lengthy scene at the end for which there is no proof it happened (any more would be a spoiler, though by now I’m guessing most have seen it).
Good one, although people tell me that in the book there is a more definitive answer. I need to read it.
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### Author:  [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/9 "2004-06-13T20:01:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#):
>
> Jimmy Stewart’s classic _Harvey_: does he really see a 7 foot tall rabbit or not?
For that matter, was there a Clarence, or was he knocked out in the accident in _It’s a Wonderful Life_?
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### Author:  [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/10 "2004-06-13T20:47:05Z")
**Ofelas** a.k.a. \*\*The Pathfinder \*\*
[http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0093668/](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0093668/)
The movie is about ancient Scandinavian tribesmen. Their shaman makes predictions that come true. Maybe he has magical foresight, or maybe he is just old and wise. He casts spells to make things happen, and they happen. Maybe it’s magic, or maybe he set in motion mundane processess.
At one point, he orders the tribe to behave in a certain way, lest magic spirits destroy them. They do what he says, and no harm comes. You spend the rest of the movie wondering what would have happened if one of them had broken the taboo.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/11 "2004-06-13T22:46:33Z")
Jimmy Stewart’s classic _Harvey_: does he really see a 7 foot tall rabbit or not?
[/QUOTE]
“Six foot, three and a half; let’s stick to the facts here.”
I figure Harvey is real enough – there’s too much that goes on outside Elwood’s frame of reference. F’rinstance, when Wilson (Jesse White) looks up ‘pooka’ in the dictionary and reads a definition that ends “. . . and how are you, Mr. Wilson.”
DD
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/12 "2004-06-13T22:51:23Z")
> [@Sampiro](#):
>
> Jimmy Stewart’s classic _Harvey_: does he really see a 7 foot tall rabbit or not?
Yes, he does. The last scene of the movie shows the invisible Harvey opening and closing a gate.
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### Author:  [@ElectricZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElectricZ)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/13 "2004-06-14T00:00:45Z")
[Below.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0276816/) A WWII submarine picks up three survivors from a torpedoed ship, after which the sub becomes haunted by a malevolent force… or the crew is simply going crazy as the air they breath is becoming more and more polluted as a German destroyer prevents them from surfacing. It’s a pretty effective psychological thriller.
EZ
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/14 "2004-06-14T13:01:11Z")
> [@Evil Death](#):
>
> Yes, he does. The last scene of the movie shows the invisible Harvey opening and closing a gate.
Ah, but how many people witnessed it?
Blair Witch, while containing some true menace, was not necessarily supernatural. We don’t know what it was.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/15 "2004-06-14T13:38:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> American Psycho
>
> There have been countless debates as to whether or not Patrick Bateman actually killed anybody or he just made everything up. Even he’s not sure.
I’m afraid that doesn’t meet the conditions of the OP; whether or not the murders occurred, there was nothing supernatural involved.
> [@](#):
>
> Originally Posted by Evil Death
> Spoiler:
>
> Yes, he does. The last scene of the movie shows the invisible Harvey opening and closing a gate.
>
> Ah, but how many people witnessed it?
Well, everybody who watched the movie. What difference does it make whether characters in the movie witnessed it?
My own contribution is _Leap of Faith_, a good but little-seen Steve Martin movie, in which he plays a phony evangelical “faith healer” (who uses the same sorts of tricks as Peter Popoff, “faith healer” and genuine douchebag). There’s no way to know if what happens toward the end of the movie is really an act of God or not.
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### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/16 "2004-06-14T15:13:22Z")
**Pulp Fiction** : did G-d save Jules or not?
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### Author:  [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/17 "2004-06-14T15:16:04Z")
_Miracle on 34th Street_ (is he Santa Claus or just crazy?)
_Man Facing Southeast_ (is he an alien or just crazy?)
_Hannah and Her Sisters_ ends with a possible “miracle” (or a more conventional explanation).
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/18 "2004-06-14T15:28:38Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#):
>
> _Hannah and Her Sisters_ ends with a possible “miracle” (or a more conventional explanation).
Are you talking about Woody’s infertility?
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### Author:  [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/19 "2004-06-14T15:46:19Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> Are you talking about Woody’s infertility?
Yes.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agnostic-movies/250128/20 "2004-06-14T17:13:31Z")
Hitchcock’s **Family Plot**. Is Barbara Harris clairvoyant? Her wink at the end leaves it open ended.
**The Wizard of Oz** – Does Oz exist, or was it just Dorothy’s dream?
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