# Agree to pay for bombing ISIS or STFU **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526 "2014-08-26T02:48:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/1 "2014-08-26T02:48:47Z")
Apparently there is a lot of pressure on the WH to intensify the military campaign against ISIS. You can verify this from a variety of sources- [here](http://online.wsj.com/articles/republicans-press-for-more-action-against-islamic-state-1408900029) is one I picked after 5 seconds of Googling: > [@](#): > > Republicans seized on Islamic State’s battlefield gains in Syria and the beheading of a U.S. journalist last week to step up calls for a more aggressive stance. As the U.S. military said Sunday it carried out two more air strikes in Iraq, Republicans urged more decisive military action to include airstrikes in Syria. Look, I can dig it. There are some genuine, actual bad guys spreading mayhem like wildfire, threatening our allies (the Kurds), regional stability, our interests (oil), and possibly our personnel as well (blowing up the Mosul dam). I’m not starting this thread to claim that a ‘more aggressive stance’ against ISIS is absurd- I specifically don’t think that. However, war is expensive, and our country goes further into debt every day. Can America learn even one thing from history, namely that fighting wars on a credit card a la W Bush is a terrible idea? Anyone who has paid any attention during the Obama administration knows how much hue and cry has been howled at the topic of the national debt- OMG, we have to cut food stamps! We have to cut medicare! We have to cut education! We have to cut Social Security! Because after W’s wars, we’re further in debt than ever, and this can’t continue! There has probably been enough yak-yak on this topic to double the size of the Library of Congress. Well, now it looks like those very same people are advocating something potentially very, very, very expensive. _How are we going to pay for it?_ I propose 1) raising taxes on the wealthy. The rates are too low as it is- we can’t balance the current budget if you haven’t noticed. 2) abolishing tax inversions- the practice by which American companies buy foreign companies, then claim the foreign company as their headquarters in order to evade paying taxes as an American company, while continuing to do business here. This practice is blatant tax evasion and has to stop. 3) A more aggressive stance against tax shelters such as the Cayman Islands, similar in most ways to point 2 really. Now, if you advocate an expanded military role, but are against paying for it via raising revenues, then you need to STFU. I know, we could cut Social Security to pay for more wars, but I think that proposal deserves a hearty ‘fuck you, asshole!’ We don’t need to cut anything that isn’t fraud in this country right now- we have major problems within our own borders that aren’t being addressed as it is. Pro-vulnerable-citizens policies on the part of government are not the same as Socialism, and I think every honest, non-stupid person knows this. In short, if you aren’t willing to pay for the war, then you need to STFU. Unwilling to compromise with the President? Fine, you don’t get what you want, asshole. Now STFU already! ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/2 "2014-08-26T03:01:04Z")
After extensive perusal of your proposals, I would say to 1) - they really are quite high. Doesn’t address the myriad loopholes available for teams of attorneys to find and exploit. 2) & 3) Look to me to be under consideration by Congress at the present time. So I believe I will take your distaff side and bid you good day. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/3 "2014-08-26T03:56:24Z")
Tax rates on the wealthy > [@jimbuff314](#): > > really are quite high _[citation needed]_ ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/4 "2014-08-26T04:35:23Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Doesn’t address the myriad loopholes available for teams of attorneys to find and exploit. Cite? I mean, exploited loopholes are kind of the point. Yeah, ultimately this turns into a legalistic game of whack-a-mole, but then again some specific egregious examples can be headed off for good, no? > [@](#): > > So I believe I will take your distaff side and bid you good day. _Good day?_ Ouch. I know this is the pit, but sometimes you don’t see it coming… I _will_ go on, though, somehow. What is your response to the proposal to pay for bombing ISIS with via raising revenue? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/5 "2014-08-26T04:37:35Z")
Bruce Bartlett has a very educated opinion of why we ended like this. > **[The Cost Of War](https://www.forbes.com/2009/11/25/shared-sacrifice-war-taxes-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html)** > > Are Americans willing to pay it? > [@](#): > > In recent years, Republicans have been characterized by two principal positions: They like starting wars and don’t like paying for them. George W. Bush initiated two major wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but adamantly refused to pay for either of them by cutting non-military spending or raising taxes. Indeed, at his behest, Congress actually cut taxes and established a massive new entitlement program, Medicare Part D. > > Bush’s actions were unprecedented. During every previous major war in American history, presidents demanded sacrifices from rich and poor alike. As Robert Hormats explains in his 2007 book, The Price of Liberty: Paying for America’s Wars, “During most of America’s wars, parochial desires–such as tax breaks for favored groups or generous spending for influential constituencies–have been sacrificed to the greater good. The president and both parties in Congress have come together to cut nonessential spending and increase taxes.” > [@](#): > > If it takes the threat of a tax increase to get people to think seriously about whether it’s worth continuing to fight wars far from home–wars that have only the most tenuous connection to the national interest–then it’s a good idea. History shows that wars financed heavily by higher taxes, such as the Korean War and the first Gulf War, end quickly, while those financed largely by deficits, such as the Vietnam War and current Middle East conflicts, tend to drag on indefinitely. > > If Americans aren’t willing to follow John F. Kennedy and “pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship” to fight a war, then we shouldn’t be fighting it. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/6 "2014-08-26T05:10:59Z")
Nice cite, **GIGObuster**. Let’s see if our opponents can raise the ante. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/7 "2014-08-26T05:13:51Z")
Was wondering how long it was going to take the GOP to make up its mind which story about Obama they want to run on. Looks like they’ve settled on GOP Classic, about pantywaist liberal wimps who won’t stand proud for America! For a while there, looked like “Imperial President overreaching his boundaries”, but they seem to have settled on the tried and false. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/8 "2014-08-26T06:01:15Z")
Well, it’s different this time! ISIS is targeting Christians! Maybe the mega churches and televangelists can start taking donations to buy cluster munitions to drop on ISIS? ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/9 "2014-08-26T06:40:28Z")
Hell, I’m no Republican. We already are paying for these bombing runs. Comes out of the DOD’s gigantic budget, no? If it escalates much, then Congress and the Admin have to talk about costs. [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates) - tax rate for individuals max for Federal + State + local = 55.9% That’s up there with Sweden at 57%. Sorry if the _Good day_ offended you. I’ve been fucking reading the fucking **Dougie\_Monty** pit thread too fucking much. Better? Response to pay for bombing ISIS by raffling tickets or something? Ha ha ha ha ha. It is a joke right? 'Cause I don’t see any such proposal anywhere but this pit thread. Also, _ **cites** _? What the fuck is this, G fucking D? What are cites worth in this hypothetical question but someone else’s fucking opinions? Cram your cites up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/10 "2014-08-26T06:42:51Z")
Yes, we should all let ISIL run amok. Who the fuck cares what happens to some Yaz…Yazdi…eh, whatevs. Ain’t my concern. Also, fuck republicans or something. I am vaguely sure I should be pissed off at the US for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/11 "2014-08-26T12:01:05Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > However, war is expensive, and our country goes further into debt every day. Can America learn even one thing from history, namely that fighting wars on a credit card a la W Bush is a terrible idea? I thought we, as Americans, learned that Boots On The Ground fighting à la W Bush is often a terrible idea compared to the cheaper tactic of raining death on people from a safe distance with push-button convenience. I mean, yeah, okay, _sometimes_ you go all Boots On The Ground, but _first_ you mull whether this is one of those times when it’s wiser to simply rain death from a safe distance with push-button convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/12 "2014-08-26T12:07:59Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates) - tax rate for individuals max for Federal + State + local = 55.9% > That’s up there with Sweden at 57%. You know that the US rates are marginal and that state taxes are deductible from Federal taxes? That means you can’t just add tax rates together. Let me know if you need the term “marginal” explained to you in simple terms. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/13 "2014-08-26T13:15:16Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Hell, I’m no Republican. We already are paying for these bombing runs. Comes out of the DOD’s gigantic budget, no? If it escalates much, then Congress and the Admin have to talk about costs. > > [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates) - tax rate for individuals max for Federal + State + local = 55.9% > That’s up there with Sweden at 57%. > > Sorry if the _Good day_ offended you. I’ve been fucking reading the fucking **Dougie\_Monty** pit thread too fucking much. Better? > > Response to pay for bombing ISIS by raffling tickets or something? > Ha ha ha ha ha. It is a joke right? 'Cause I don’t see any such proposal anywhere but this pit thread. > > Also, _ **cites** _? What the fuck is this, G fucking D? What are cites worth in this hypothetical question but someone else’s fucking opinions? Cram your cites up your ass. Err… Mitt Romney’s effective tax rate was something like 14%. While the 56% is theoretically possible, I doubt there’s a single person in the US who pays that. The wealthy simply throw their money into profit making stocks and live off the dividends and voila, pay a third of what their maids do. Hell back in 07’ Warren Buffet publicly acknowledged that he paid a 17% tax rate on 46 Million dollars in income while his secretary paid 30% on 60000. Sooooo yeah. Not so much with anyone paying 56% ever. (Cites provided on request but really, just google that and you’ll find it in a second) Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/14 "2014-08-26T14:00:17Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I thought we, as Americans, learned that Boots On The Ground fighting à la W Bush is often a terrible idea compared to the cheaper tactic of raining death on people from a safe distance with push-button convenience. I mean, yeah, okay, _sometimes_ you go all Boots On The Ground, but _first_ you mull whether this is one of those times when it’s wiser to simply rain death from a safe distance with push-button convenience. Look, if NOT going to war is the best solution, then praise be to Allah, no? But if we are going to war, whatever flavor we decide is best, we better pay for it, no? Look at the state of the [national debt](http://zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/debt/US-national-debt-GDP.png). It isn’t going to go away on its own, and another unfunded war is only going to make it worse. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have some cites to shove up my ass before I proceed with my good day. I just hope that asshole STFU. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/15 "2014-08-26T14:37:49Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Look, if NOT going to war is the best solution, then praise be to Allah, no? > > But if we are going to war, whatever flavor we decide is best, we better pay for it, no? Look at the state of the [national debt](http://zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/debt/US-national-debt-GDP.png). It isn’t going to go away on its own, and another unfunded war is only going to make it worse. I just want to make sure we’re on the same page: it’s not simply a choice between “NOT going to war” and “another unfunded war” – one significantly similar to, and thus worth lumping in with, those Boots On The Ground experiences we should learn from. Raining death on them from a safe distance with push-button convenience – and then calling it a day – would be cheaper than the latter, if not as cheap as the former, right? Do you figure there’s _some_ amount of death-raining we can still afford? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/16 "2014-08-26T15:25:46Z")
It might be particularly effective in these special circumstances. The Bad Guys are exploiting their capture of fancy deathware and armor. Most likely, they won’t have that option for long, figuring they can suss out how to drive them, but can they fix them? “Achmed? How do I change the oil on this?” “Look it up in the Koran!” The IS is religious fanaticism, the nauseating belief that God Almighty smiles down on their slaughter and massacre with benign approval. Couple of solid thumps from the Great Satan might help disabuse them of that notion. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/17 "2014-08-26T15:38:54Z")
I would totally be for an increase in military presence there if we raised taxes on the wealthy and closed corporate loopholes to pay for it ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/18 "2014-08-26T16:14:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The IS is religious fanaticism, the nauseating belief that God Almighty smiles down on their slaughter and massacre with benign approval. Couple of solid thumps from the Great Satan might help disabuse them of that notion. I doubt it. My prediction, should that happen, is that they’ll decide they were obviously not pure enough in their religious fervor and actions, and they will become even more fanatical with extra atrocities. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/19 "2014-08-26T16:48:38Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > What is your response to the proposal to pay for bombing ISIS with via raising revenue? What? Pay for something by getting the money for it first? That’s not how our government works… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/20 "2014-08-26T17:12:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It might be particularly effective in these special circumstances. The Bad Guys are exploiting their capture of fancy deathware and armor. Most likely, they won’t have that option for long, figuring they can suss out how to drive them, but can they fix them? > > “Achmed? How do I change the oil on this?” > “Look it up in the Koran!” > > The IS is religious fanaticism, the nauseating belief that God Almighty smiles down on their slaughter and massacre with benign approval. Couple of solid thumps from the Great Satan might help disabuse them of that notion. Not that I favor the US getting into another war, but why do you keep posting stuff like this? The news reports are pretty clear that these are not a bunch of bungling fundamentalists who don’t know up from down. They are a sophisticated, well funded fighting force, described by our own military guys as “some of the best fighters they’ve come up against” (paraphrased). These guys mean business, and as long as they are allied with Sunnis in areas where Shi’a oppression is strong, they should not be underestimated. Again, I’m not in favor of us taking them on, but it isn’t because all they need is a couple slaps to put them in their place. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526.md?page=2)