# Agree to pay for bombing ISIS or STFU **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526 "2014-08-26T02:48:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/21 "2014-08-26T17:29:18Z")
[Here’s](http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/) what I was attempting to communicate. "Many people think that the rich are able to weasel their way out of taxes, but they actually pay an overwhelming majority of the taxes in the United States. What’s more, their share of the tax burden is increasing. The top 10 percent of taxpayers paid over 70% of the total amount collected in federal income taxes in 2010, the latest year figures are available, according to the Tax Foundation, a think tank that advocates for lower taxes." “Just hope that asshole STFU.” Hey - I tried being polite. Didn’t seem to work. BTW - didja know you can say fuck in the Pit? Whassamatta? Did I take your hypothetical bullshit in an uncontrolled direction? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/22 "2014-08-27T05:19:35Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Hell, I’m no Republican. We already are paying for these bombing runs. Comes out of the DOD’s gigantic budget, no? If it escalates much, then Congress and the Admin have to talk about costs. > > [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates) - tax rate for individuals max for Federal + State + local = 55.9% > That’s up there with Sweden at 57%. > > Sorry if the _Good day_ offended you. I’ve been fucking reading the fucking **Dougie\_Monty** pit thread too fucking much. Better? > > Response to pay for bombing ISIS by raffling tickets or something? > Ha ha ha ha ha. It is a joke right? 'Cause I don’t see any such proposal anywhere but this pit thread. > > Also, _ **cites** _? What the fuck is this, G fucking D? What are cites worth in this hypothetical question but someone else’s fucking opinions? Cram your cites up your ass. Let’s take another look at this. You have posted some unadulterated bullshit in defense of your position. You have been swiftly debunked. Sure, a few bombing runs may come out of the DOD budget, but what is underway now very well may lead to something like the previous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which by no means were paid for by the DOD budget- they were paid for with massive debts, debts which were vociferously leveraged by conservative politicians to attack programs like Social Security, food stamps, education funding, infrastructure maintenance, the ACA, and so on. Another full-scale war will certainly increase the national debt, which further threatens programs which benefit our own vulnerable citizens. The alternative is… :smack: pay for the goddamned war! That way we can kill the bad guys AND take care of our own. This is extremely obvious IMHO. Your response is utterly typical of the modern right, even though you claim not to be a Republican- parrot some bullshit, then dodge any attempt to get to the heart of the matter via facts and reasons. Your anti-cite position is laughable at best, closer to contemptible. This may not be “G fucking D”, but if you don’t know what you are talking about, everyone can tell. Facts can get beyond mere opinions, a lesson I think you ought to have learned by now. > [@jimbuff314](#): > > [Here’s](http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/) what I was attempting to communicate. > > "Many people think that the rich are able to weasel their way out of taxes, but they actually pay an overwhelming majority of the taxes in the United States. > What’s more, their share of the tax burden is increasing. > > The top 10 percent of taxpayers paid over 70% of the total amount collected in federal income taxes in 2010, the latest year figures are available, according to the Tax Foundation, a think tank that advocates for lower taxes." > > “Just hope that asshole STFU.” Hey - I tried being polite. Didn’t seem to work. BTW - didja know you can say fuck in the Pit? Whassamatta? Did I take your hypothetical bullshit in an uncontrolled direction? These figures are utterly irrelevant when taken in the context of the plutocratic wealth/income inequality present in our country/world today. 10% of the population controls something like 90+% of the nation’s wealth. If they are only paying 70% of the taxes, then clearly they are not paying their fair share. What part of that do you not understand? The only reason they are getting away with it is their purchase of so many members of national and state governments, along with their near-total control of the media, manipulating the public system to private ends. If you don’t understand this, you really need to talk less and read more. My point stands. Someday when you start your own thread, you can make your own rules. This is my thread, and the rules are: if you don’t agree to pay for bombing ISIS as laid out in the OP, then you have to STFU. Get with the program. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would totally be for an increase in military presence there if we raised taxes on the wealthy and closed corporate loopholes to pay for it That’s the spirit. Please, go on. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/23 "2014-08-27T05:33:28Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I just want to make sure we’re on the same page: it’s not simply a choice between “NOT going to war” and “another unfunded war” – one significantly similar to, and thus worth lumping in with, those Boots On The Ground experiences we should learn from. Raining death on them from a safe distance with push-button convenience – and then calling it a day – would be cheaper than the latter, if not as cheap as the former, right? Do you figure there’s _some_ amount of death-raining we can still afford? One the one hand, there is a clear distinction between an air campaign and some kind of invasion. OTOH, the discussion has turned to air strikes inside Syria. The Assad regime commands a formidable air defense system supplied by the Russians, and they are not working with us wrt to airstrikes inside their territory. Remember the commercial jet and also the fighter jets shot down over Ukraine? Syria has the same capability, maybe more so. So, the distinction blurs if your point is that an air campaign alone grants our forces some kind of immunity from harm- it doesn’t. We’re putting our troops into harm’s way if we send them on this mission. The Soviets shot down our U2 plane in the depths of the Cold War. What if the Syrians start shooting down our planes as we bomb ISIS targets? What if they capture our pilots? What if they treat our actions as a declaration of war? Do we send in ground forces to rescue the captives, or what? War is war. Air war can seem cheaper at first, but in the long run the thing has a chance of escalating into the full shit-show. So- I dunno if we are on the same page. I don’t think there is such a clear bright line between air war and war- one bleeds into the other, at least potentially. Congress really ought to vote on whether or not we engage with this war, but of course Congress can’t be counted on to do jack shit, contrary to what our friend Jimbuff says. They aren’t closing any tax-evasion loopholes, and they aren’t debating any propositions of war and peace. They’re worthless slugs because they are full of plutocrat-funded conservative dipshits whose only concern is perpetuating the plutocracy. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/24 "2014-08-27T05:36:48Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > So I believe I will take your distaff side and bid you good day. You are taking [the women from his family](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/distaff+side)? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/25 "2014-08-27T05:40:40Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > “The top 10 percent of taxpayers paid over 70% of the total amount collected in federal income taxes in 2010” You do realize, I hope, that that is because they have much more than 70% of all the money in private hands. They ain’t really suffering. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/26 "2014-08-27T11:19:01Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > What if the Syrians start shooting down our planes as we bomb ISIS targets? What if they capture our pilots? What if they treat our actions as a declaration of war? Do we send in ground forces to rescue the captives, or what? War is war. Air war can seem cheaper at first, but in the long run the thing has a chance of escalating into the full shit-show. You talk of “pilots” and “captives”, but I’m a big fan of “drones” and “cruise missiles”. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/27 "2014-08-28T02:00:40Z")
Yes, well, we’ll have to wait and see what they do. Half of me believes that once things get going, the mission is going to creep into whatever the generals want, or will be forced into a wider conflict by changing conditions. I just don’t expect it to be a small thing- I’d like to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/28 "2014-08-28T02:22:12Z")
Why on earth would the Republicans want to pay for another war? Another unfunded war is just one more step in reaching their long-term goal of upending federal goverment. “See? This 'federal govt” thing just doesnt work! We tried it and look what happens!" ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/29 "2014-08-28T02:27:32Z")
Maybe if you did a “Kickstarter” campaign you could raise at least as much money as the “Star Trek-Axanar” people did. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/30 "2014-08-28T02:36:12Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You are taking [the women from his family](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/distaff+side)? :eek: Thank you. I was goign to mention that either the poster or I misunderstood the meaning of “distaff”. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/31 "2014-08-28T03:04:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You know that the US rates are marginal and that state taxes are deductible from Federal taxes? That means you can’t just add tax rates together. > > Let me know if you need the term “marginal” explained to you in simple terms. Only if you itemize are state & local taxes deductible. Something like 60% of American taxpayers do not itemize their returns. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/32 "2014-08-28T03:05:46Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would totally be for an increase in military presence there if we raised taxes on the wealthy and closed corporate loopholes to pay for it Corporate taxes are taxes on non-wealthy persons, primarily. The wealthy avoid most of the impact of corporate taxation due to spending such a small portion of their income and any ownership interest in a corporation is treated very beneficially from an income taxation perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/33 "2014-08-28T04:34:40Z")
So, you’re promoting a wealth tax? Higher capital gains taxes? Or what? (maybe a carbon tax, maybe ending the mortgage deduction in exchange for cutting income taxes on middle earners and below?) The pessimism in me says these problems are intractable, and the only real solution is to become rich oneself. Obviously this doesn’t address the issue of the vulnerable poor who can’t/don’t become rich. Or, of course, putting the burden for bombing ISIS on the people who are most able to actually pay for it. Raising marginal rates on high earners to this end seems fairly direct- I’m sure smart dopers will explain the work-around soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/34 "2014-09-03T03:29:31Z")
Well, there are new calls for an expanded military role in Iraq and Syria against ISIS, from [here](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-02/islamic-state-video-shows-beheading-of-american-sotloff-1-.html): > [@](#): > > Senator Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, said in an e-mailed statement today that American airpower, employed “in coordination with reliable partners on the ground,” should be “aggressively pursued both in Syria and Iraq.” > > ‘Barbaric Cruelty’ > > Senator Bill Nelson, a Florida Democrat, said today in a statement that America must go after Islamic State “right away because the U.S. is the only one that can put together a coalition to stop this group that’s intent on barbaric cruelty.” > > Some Democrats have joined Republicans in urging more forceful action by Obama. > > “I’ve learned one thing about this president, and that is he’s very cautious – maybe in this instance too cautious,” Senator Dianne Feinstein, the California Democrat who heads the Senate intelligence committee, said Aug. 31 on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” > > Royce, the head of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said he will call Kerry before the panel this month to testify on efforts at “rolling back” Islamic State’s gains. > > Royce and Representative Eliot Engel of New York, the committee’s top Democrat, told reporters they expect Congress to vote on airstrikes in Iraq and possibly Syria. > > “We anticipate that there would be a vote for authorization,” Royce said. I’m not saying that ‘rolling back’ ISIS’s gains is a rotten idea. ISIS strikes me as a terrible organization that very well may be worth opposing. But I’d like to repeat my mantra wrt to this conflict: agree to pay for bombing ISIS, or STFU. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/35 "2014-09-03T06:45:22Z")
I thought it was a mistake to mess with Assad, as he was the somewhat tolerable devil we knew. Turns out that was correct. These bastards are the enemy of civilization. I could get by increasing revenues and arranging for them to meet their virgins after a trip to the solitude of the desert. These guys are bad news. Plus they mess up my memories of The Mighty ISIS, one hot goddess babe from the 70s. (I cannot believe my mother let me watch that crap.) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/36 "2014-09-03T14:51:45Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > 1. abolishing tax inversions- the practice by which American companies buy foreign companies, then claim the foreign company as their headquarters in order to evade paying taxes as an American company, while continuing to do business here. This practice is blatant tax evasion and has to stop. Wow this OP is chock full of a myriad of debatable topics…probably could be split into a numerous threads… With regard to the tidbit quoted above, it sounds more like you have been listening to media sound bites as opposed to really understanding the issue. Companies with foreign headquarters still pay US taxes on the income they generate in the US. They pay foreign taxes on the income generated in foreign jurisdictions. What the US is unhappy about is that foreign generated cash is kept in overseas bank accounts and not repatriated back to the US, which if it were brought back, then would be subject to US taxes offset by foreign tax credits, i.e. the difference between the higher US tax rate and the lower foreign tax rate. Even with US headquartered companies, there is no requirement to bring foreign earnings back to the US. Again it is clear that you don’t really understand the issue, but it sounds good to complain about in an anti-corporate media stance. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/37 "2014-09-03T15:33:48Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Wow this OP is chock full of a myriad of debatable topics…probably could be split into a numerous threads… > > With regard to the tidbit quoted above, it sounds more like you have been listening to media sound bites as opposed to really understanding the issue. Companies with foreign headquarters still pay US taxes on the income they generate in the US. They pay foreign taxes on the income generated in foreign jurisdictions. What the US is unhappy about is that foreign generated cash is kept in overseas bank accounts and not repatriated back to the US, which if it were brought back, then would be subject to US taxes offset by foreign tax credits, i.e. the difference between the higher US tax rate and the lower foreign tax rate. Even with US headquartered companies, there is no requirement to bring foreign earnings back to the US. > > Again it is clear that you don’t really understand the issue, but it sounds good to complain about in an anti-corporate media stance. And they use accounting tricks to shift US profits to those foreign headquarters. Since you understand the issue so much better than the rest of us, you surely knew that right? > **[Transfer pricing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_pricing)** > > Transfer pricing refers to the rules and methods for pricing transactions within and between enterprises under common ownership or control. Because of the potential for cross-border controlled transactions to distort taxable income, tax authorities in many countries can adjust intragroup transfer prices that differ from what would have been charged by unrelated enterprises dealing at arm’s length (the arm’s-length principle). The OECD and World Bank recommend intragroup pricing rules based Where... > [@](#): > > Transfer pricing is the setting of the price for goods and services sold between controlled (or related) legal entities within an enterprise. For example, if a subsidiary company sells goods to a parent company, the cost of those goods is the transfer price. Legal entities considered under the control of a single corporation include branches and companies that are wholly or majority owned ultimately by the parent corporation. Certain jurisdictions consider entities to be under common control if they share family members on their boards of directors. It can be used as a profit allocation method to attribute a multinational corporation’s net profit (or loss) before tax to countries where it does business. Transfer pricing results in the setting of prices among divisions within an enterprise. > > In principle a transfer price should match either what the seller would charge an independent, arm’s length customer, or what the buyer would pay an independent, arm’s length supplier. While unrealistic transfer prices do not affect the overall enterprise directly, they become a concern when they are misused to lower profits in a division of an enterprise that is located in a country that levies high taxes and raise profits in a country that is a tax haven that levies no or low taxes. **Transfer pricing is the major tool for corporate tax avoidance**. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/38 "2014-09-03T18:10:40Z")
Again, calling it tax avoidance is a political sound bite. Transfer pricing is governed by taxing authorities in both jurisdictions the selling entity and the purchasing entity. Subject to audit and review by those authorities. It is legal and governed by the respective tax codes. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/39 "2014-09-03T18:17:42Z")
Legal and ethical are two different things. That’s why people are calling for changes to the laws. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526/40 "2014-09-03T18:36:33Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Legal and ethical are two different things. That’s why people are calling for changes to the laws. Your calling it unethical, like tomato or tomawto. The law is the law, and until it’s changed it’s just political mud-slinging. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agree-to-pay-for-bombing-isis-or-stfu/696526.md?page=3)