# Agreement for framework for Iran nuclear deal reached **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648 "2015-04-02T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/261 "2015-04-10T02:42:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You don’t understand what a request for a cite is? Not sure I can do anything about that. Just to clarify, I hope you’re not asking for a cite for the existence of war-freaks in the U.S., right? You’re asking for a cite for the existence of war-freaks in Iran? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/262 "2015-04-10T03:10:47Z")
Just google “revolutionary guard”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/263 "2015-04-10T04:15:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Just google “revolutionary guard”. They ain’t war-freaks, they’re a corrupt establishment. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/264 "2015-04-11T01:09:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They ain’t war-freaks, they’re a corrupt establishment. Not a fan, but they’re really not all that corrupt, particularly not by the standards of the Middle East. Beyond that, they certainly have been all for the rattling of sabers ever since they came into extistence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/265 "2015-04-11T01:14:42Z")
Their corruption is not money, but rigid authoritarian piety is not an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/266 "2015-04-11T07:18:10Z")
The Senate may indeed have that veto proof majority to tie the President’s hands: > **[Senate nears Iran deal rebuke to Obama | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/politics/senate-iran-bill-veto-obama/index.html)** > > Senate backers of a bill the White House fears could dismantle a potential nuclear deal with Iran are closing in on a veto-proof threshold of support. I just don’t understand why he would have taken this course without at least making sure beforehand that his own party backed him. > [@](#): > > Kaine said he’s pointed out to the administration that it’s negotiating over sanctions that are under Congress’s jurisdiction. “If you’re going to negotiate over a congressional act, Congress is going to be involved,” Kaine said of the argument he’s been making to the White House. Is this news to the President? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/267 "2015-04-11T07:27:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Senate may indeed have that veto proof majority to tie the President’s hands: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/politics/senate-iran-bill-veto-obama/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/politics/senate-iran-bill-veto-obama/index.html) > > I just don’t understand why he would have taken this course without at least making sure beforehand that his own party backed him. > > Is this news to the President? Even if some few morons on the left will vote with the unified block of morons on the right, negotiation is still the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/268 "2015-04-11T07:42:42Z")
I don’t disagree. But he has to negotiate based on what is acceptable to Congress, not just him personally. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/269 "2015-04-11T07:57:26Z")
Yeah, gee, if only he would stop and consider what is best for the country. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/270 "2015-04-11T07:57:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t disagree. But he has to negotiate based on what is acceptable to Congress, not just him personally. Let’s be clear, the reason the right is unified against this is because it’s Obama. The exact same plan by a GOP president would go sailing through. So, he has to negotiate the best deal possible, with the adults in the room. And hope that the better angels of the right don’t value thwarting Obama more than they disdain killing thousands of people needlessly and increasing the chaos in the middle east. If the GOP decides to ramp up sanctions, or necessitate some silly condition, for no reason other than to scuttle the talks, that’s just something that can’t be changed. Thousands will die, and they’ll blame the people who did the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/271 "2015-04-11T08:46:31Z")
The right doesn’t have a veto proof majority in Congress. This seems to be a tick lefties have, making everything about the right. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/272 "2015-04-11T08:51:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The right doesn’t have a veto proof majority in Congress. This seems to be a tick lefties have, making everything about the right. If 55 of 55 of one group, and 6 of 45 of another decide something, it seems to me like the blame can fall primarily on the unanimous group. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/273 "2015-04-11T09:12:17Z")
Actually, they need 12 Democrats. If you’ve got 12, it’s bipartisan. Especially when one of them is going to be the new Senate Democratic leader. The others are far from obscure. Tim Kaine was on Obama’s VP shortlist and will presumably be on Clinton’s as well. These aren’t the kinds of people the President can just roll over. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/274 "2015-04-11T10:20:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, they need 12 Democrats. If you’ve got 12, it’s bipartisan. Especially when one of them is going to be the new Senate Democratic leader. The others are far from obscure. Tim Kaine was on Obama’s VP shortlist and will presumably be on Clinton’s as well. These aren’t the kinds of people the President can just roll over. I will grant that it’s bipartisan. I will also grant that when the majority of Dems are against it, and all the 'Pubs are for it, saying that the fault isn’t mostly on the 'Pubs is goofy. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/275 "2015-04-11T10:44:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Iran just made an impossible demand: removal of all sanctions as soon as a deal is signed: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/politics/iran-nuclear-bill/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/politics/iran-nuclear-bill/index.html) I’ll bet you ten to one that’s simply bluster to gladden the country’s hardliners. From your own cite, it’s something Rouhani said “at a ceremony to mark National Nuclear Technology Day in Tehran,” i.e. _not_ in the course of the negotiations. I’m guessing the actual negotiators - on both sides - know it just ain’t gonna happen, and have accepted as much. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/276 "2015-04-11T11:10:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I just don’t understand why he would have taken this course without at least making sure beforehand that his own party backed him. Two reasons: first, why would the US be the one to pull out of talks? Republicans would just be blasting him for failure to lead, etc. Second, there are agreements in history that started off very unpopular and ended up being supported by Congress. See: Panama Canal treaties. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/277 "2015-04-11T12:20:27Z")
I’ll be very surprised if enough Democrats cross over to override a veto on this deal. “I voted for war with Iran” will be very harmful, in future Democratic party primaries. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/278 "2015-04-11T12:44:53Z")
This deal does nothing to prevent war. At best, it delays it, assuming I accept your premise that war is the only alternative to a deal. Peace in our time? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/279 "2015-04-11T13:11:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This deal does nothing to prevent war. I strongly disagree – I think war is far less likely with this deal in place. > [@](#): > > At best, it delays it, assuming I accept your premise that war is the only alternative to a deal. Peace in our time? There are two alternatives to a deal – war or nuclear capable Iran. Even with war, we’d get a nuclear capable Iran in the long run. The Chamberlain comparisons are, as ever, ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/280 "2015-04-11T13:24:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This deal does nothing to prevent war. If everyone complies with the deal, who would go to war on whom and why? Also, you never responded to my question as to whether you understood that your conclusion that Iran is actively building a bomb today is a conclusion that is speculative, not based in fact. Do you understand that you are just guessing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=15)