# Agreement for framework for Iran nuclear deal reached **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648 "2015-04-02T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/281 "2015-04-11T13:38:19Z")
[http://www.tasnimnews.com/english/Home/Single/706769](http://www.tasnimnews.com/english/Home/Single/706769) Iranian officials have already announced “clearly and explicitly” their opposition to the inspection of the country’s military and defense facilities, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces Brigadier General Massoud Jazayeri said on Friday. He also derided US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter as lacking in understanding after his recent claims that a final deal on Iran’s nuclear program would entail inspection of Iran’s military facilities. As I said, what Obama claims was agreed to and what Iranians think was agreed to are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/282 "2015-04-11T13:50:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [No Inspection of Iran’s Military Sites Allowed: Commander - Defense news - Tasnim News Agency](http://www.tasnimnews.com/english/Home/Single/706769) > > Iranian officials have already announced “clearly and explicitly” their opposition to the inspection of the country’s military and defense facilities, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces Brigadier General Massoud Jazayeri said on Friday. > > He also derided US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter as lacking in understanding after his recent claims that a final deal on Iran’s nuclear program would entail inspection of Iran’s military facilities. > > As I said, what Obama claims was agreed to and what Iranians think was agreed to are two different things. No final deal has been signed. If this isn’t worked out (assuming the story is true), then there probably won’t be one. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/283 "2015-04-11T13:59:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No final deal has been signed. If this isn’t worked out (assuming the story is true), then there probably won’t be one. Or Obama will fold. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/284 "2015-04-11T16:00:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Or Obama will fold. Honestly, I’m not sure what you are rooting for more: intrusive inspections to make sure there is no Itanian weapons program, or for Obama to “fail.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/285 "2015-04-11T16:31:59Z")
Some reason they can’t have both? Logic might indicate otherwise, but these are people who are not bound by such petty restrictions. “Sure, the framework is functioning, but only because the Republicans were tough!” Bet me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/286 "2015-04-11T17:23:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Or Obama will fold. To the Iranians, or to the Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/287 "2015-04-11T17:39:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Or Obama will fold. What makes you believe this? He has been much more steadfast in his resolve than his predecessor. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/288 "2015-04-11T18:16:54Z")
[Here’s one Pub who can see through the bullshit](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/10/the_gop_has_scores_of_racists_a_former_bush_official_condemns_modern_republican_orthodoxy/) – Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell. > [@](#): > > **So the Iraq War was a costly disaster. Why are Republicans pushing for war with Iran?** > > There are three components of this push for war with Iran. The neoconservatives feel the only way to settle the problem is to destroy the current Middle Eastern governments, and they will turn into democracies in 30 years. The second reason is Israel. We have come to the point where we blindly follow Israel. Congress gave multiple standing ovations to Benjamin Netanyahu. If Middle Eastern countries are in chaos, they can’t unify against Israel. The third reason is there is a regional power struggle between Iran, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council [a union of gulf states] and the United States. These people don’t want Iran in power. They want Iran isolated. > > **Some Republicans have called for an attack on Iran. Rep. Duncan Hunter said we should use a tactical nuclear weapon.** > > If we attacked Iran, they would go nuclear. If we attacked Iran it would take 500,000 troops, 10 years and trillions of dollars. Alexander the Great almost died in Iran. You don’t want to invade Iran. Iran has 75 million people. It’s the most stable country in the region. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/289 "2015-04-11T18:44:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Here’s one Pub who can see through the bullshit](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/10/the_gop_has_scores_of_racists_a_former_bush_official_condemns_modern_republican_orthodoxy/) – Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell. You’re quoting the guy who outed Valerie Plame? Did I misremember or weren’t you quite outraged about what happened to her? If I’m wrong and you never cared about what happened to her or her drama queen husband, then I apologize for the mistake. If not, what changed your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/290 "2015-04-11T18:52:42Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’re quoting the guy who outed Valerie Plame? > > Did I misremember or weren’t you quite outraged about what happened to her? > > If I’m wrong and you never cared about what happened to her or her drama queen husband, then I apologize for the mistake. > > If not, what changed your mind? I believe you’re confusing Larry Wilkerson and Richard Armitage. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/291 "2015-04-11T18:53:29Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’re quoting the guy who outed Valerie Plame? Wasn’t that Scooter and the _Douchebag of Liberty_? > [@](#): > > Did I misremember or weren’t you quite outraged about what happened to her? > > If I’m wrong and you never cared about what happened to her or her drama queen husband, then I apologize for the mistake. > > If not, what changed your mind? Why would you make light of one of the shittiest things the W. administration did? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/292 "2015-04-11T19:05:01Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’re quoting the guy who outed Valerie Plame? [No, that was Richard Armitage.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair) And if it had been Wilkerson, so what? That would not make everything he said for the rest of his life wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/293 "2015-04-11T19:11:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I believe you’re confusing Larry Wilkerson and Richard Armitage. D’oh! You’re correct! I confused Undersecrataries of State. Good catch and my bad! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/294 "2015-04-11T19:14:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [No, that was Richard Armitage.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair) Yup, my bad and my apologies. Confused Powell aides. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/295 "2015-04-11T19:18:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Wasn’t that Scooter and the _Douchebag of Liberty_? > > Why would you make light of one of the shittiest things the W. administration did? No, it was Richard Armitage who was hardly a neocon or typical member of the Bush administration. I also didn’t make light of what happened and you’re acting as if it was orchestrated by “the Bush administration” rather than a combination of fuck ups by opponents of the Iraq War(Armitage and Novak). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/296 "2015-04-11T19:22:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > D’oh! > You’re correct! I confused Undersecrataries of State. > Good catch and my bad! I should have said “Powell aides”. Sorry, trying to be pithy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/297 "2015-04-11T19:29:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No, it was Richard Armitage who was hardly a neocon or typical member of the Bush administration. > > I also didn’t make light of what happened and you’re acting as if it was orchestrated by “the Bush administration” rather than a combination of fuck ups by opponents of the Iraq War(Armitage and Novak). You mean proponents, not opponents. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/298 "2015-04-11T19:31:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Senate may indeed have that veto proof majority to tie the President’s hands: Your link says they are four away. And that’s making the implausible assumption that everyone who voted for the bill the first time will vote to override a presidential veto. On a foreign policy issue, it doesn’t work like that. Having said that, I just spent a minute googling for a past example of what I was saying, but found the opposite: > **[SENATE, 78 TO 21, OVERRIDES REAGAN'S VETO AND IMPOSES SANCTIONS ON SOUTH...](https://www.nytimes.com/1986/10/03/world/senate-78-to-21-overrides-reagan-s-veto-and-imposes-sanctions-on-south-africa.html)** Still, it would be easy for a Democrat to switch sides on grounds that the Europeans won’t cooperate with continued sanctions, and claim he or she didn’t know that earlier. I’ve just been reading that Eisenhower, in 1952, campaigned on, among other things, a ill-conceived pledge to unleash Chiang Kai-shek to attack mainland China. I wonder if the GOP candidate next year will do the same with Israel and Iran. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/299 "2015-04-11T19:34:25Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I’ve just been reading that Eisenhower, in 1952, campaigned on, among other things, a ill-conceived pledge to unleash Chiang Kai-shek to attack mainland China. I wonder if the GOP candidate next year will do the same with Israel and Iran. Yeah! Look out, Israel and Iran! Here comes Chiang Kai-shek! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/300 "2015-04-11T20:00:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yeah! Look out, Israel and Iran! Here comes Chiang Kai-shek! As surprise attacks go, that’d be up there with the best of 'em. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=16)