# Agreement for framework for Iran nuclear deal reached **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648 "2015-04-02T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/21 "2015-04-03T00:05:41Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Leave the negotiations, let the sanctions continue to bleed them dry, let them come to you, and secure a solid deal. > > Obama wimped out, got conned by the Iranians, and settled for a meaningless deal in the end. > > He’s a joke in the international sphere. Putin played him; now the Iranians. > > But _yay_ we got _something_. The difference between your beliefs and reality, is that reality is related to the observed universe. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/22 "2015-04-03T00:29:42Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Leave the negotiations, let the sanctions continue to bleed them dry, let them come to you, and secure a solid deal. I am always amazed, especially after the Iraq debacle, that people still believe exacerbation of hostilities will somehow make things better. > [@Stringbean](#): > > Obama wimped out, got conned by the Iranians, and settled for a meaningless deal in the end. Are you kidding me? Obama is being praised for this achievement. Is the praise a little premature? Possibly. But no one except American conservatives are complaining about what Obama has done here. > [@Stringbean](#): > > He’s a joke in the international sphere. Putin played him; now the Iranians. Cite an international outlet calling Obama a joke for this deal. > [@Stringbean](#): > > But _yay_ we got _something_. Like **John Mace** , you’re cynical. However, unlike **John Mace** , you’re also a ham sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/23 "2015-04-03T00:43:40Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Folks, this is simply common sense. The idea that we can just sanction a country into doing our will didn’t work with Cuba, and it isn’t going to work with Iran. Those sanctions are working for now, but they aren’t going to work over the long term. Countries will inevitably drop their sanctions for one reason or another over time, so our leverage – that is, the leverage of the US, UK, France, Germany, China, Russia, the EU, and most of the modern world – is at its best right now, and will wane in the future. I’m all for more normalized relations with both Iran and Cuba, but this part of your otherwise solid post is off point. We _did_ actually sanction Iran into doing something we wanted. Further, Cuba isn’t an accurate counterpoint. Cuba was straight up funded with blank checks from the Soviet Union, without which the Castro regime likely would not have lasted as long as it did. And that’s a Cuba with much lighter sanctions on it than Iran, because Cuba never had the broad-based coalition of countries sanctioning it that Iran has right now. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/24 "2015-04-03T00:47:58Z")
Who do you mean by “we” when you said “we sanctioned them into doing something?” If it is “we” as in the US and Europe, that’s fair. But I’m saying that I don’t trust Europe to keep up sanctions for a long time. If you mean “we” in reference only to the US, I disagree. It was the fact that a lot of Iran’s trading partners got together and agreed on the sanctions that really gave them some bite. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/25 "2015-04-03T01:07:38Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What is the basis for claims that this is not an actual agreement but just is being called one to make it look like something was done? We’re told this is a “framework for an agreement”. Those are not my words, those are what is being reported. But if things are as **Ravenman** reports (and none of those things was in the linked article in the OP), then I can see this as a tentative, positive step forward. But the devil is, as they say, in the details and the details have yet to be worked out-- that is supposed to happen between now and June. Anyone want to bet on the June deadline being met? 😉 And I’m all for normalizing relations with Iran. If it were up to me, I’d do it tomorrow. There is nothing to be gained from not talking to governments when you are the only country (or almost only country) not doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/26 "2015-04-03T01:37:16Z")
Countless deals with Iran later, they are pursuing their nuclear program, funding terrorist groups, and two-facing everything they say and do with America. We’ll be back to play this same charade in a few years, after they’ve refused to let the UN atomic investigators into their facilities. They do this every time. Make them pay by keeping the sanctions for an extended time frame, and you may get some teeth to your negotiations. But, of course, this is a major foreign policy achievement for the Obama administration. They wouldn’t dare scramble for a last-minute toothless deal in order to save face and try and notch some sort of accomplishment on their belt. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/27 "2015-04-03T01:46:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Conservatives freak out.](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/02/the_iranians_didnt_get_the_sudetenland_conservatives_freak_out_over_iran_nuclear_framework/) Laura Ingraham is REALLY not aging well, is she? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/28 "2015-04-03T02:06:06Z")
In my opinion…it’s all false drama, as Iran is simply big enough as a nation and an economy to get nuclear weapons if it wants them. Pakistan has 'em, and it’s economy (per the Wikipedia cite of the U.N. rankings) is less than half Iran’s economy. This is one of those things you just can’t fight. We can, at best, delay it for a while, but threats and sanctions won’t do the trick: that just makes them angrier. It stiffens their determination. They know, once they do have such weaponry, the sanctions pretty much have to ease back. There wouldn’t be any purpose to them any longer, and it would continue to make them ill-disposed. Grumpy people with nuclear weapons: bad combination. Obama is in a situation where the best he can do is put up a weak agreement, bypassing the Senate, and then wait for the U.S. right wing to shit all over him when Iran does, eventually, build its bomb. But the U.S. right wing is going to shit all over Obama anyway, so what’s the goddam difference? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/29 "2015-04-03T02:16:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s a small step in the right direction. Of course it will drive the right wingers nuts, since all they can think of is war war war. [Peace with Iran Could Limit Ability to Bomb It, Warns McCain](http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/peace-with-iran-could-limit-ability-to-bomb-it-warns-mccain)😉 In all great humor there is an element of truth. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/30 "2015-04-03T02:38:59Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Countless deals with Iran later… what are you talking about? Countless meaning zero? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/31 "2015-04-03T03:01:00Z")
Some of the conservative comments quoted in that _Salon_ article are hilarious. Apparently Obama has now legitimized nukes for the mullahs and the Ayatollah. (Figures that he would do this for fellow Muslims.) Michelle Malkin is predicting a world-ending nuclear apocalypse. Apparently trying to reach a deal with Iran is sheer folly, and the only solution is to bomb the hell out of them. That ought to assure world peace. Bombing the hell out of Iraq certainly did! Is this what the neocons have now become? I truly fear for the future of this world if a Republican president is elected in the present political climate. It’s not going to be about conservative fiscal policies, or negotiating peaceful treaties – it’s going to be about where the bombs fly. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/32 "2015-04-03T03:04:59Z")
[That didn’t take long…](http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-accuses-u-s-of-lying-about-new-nuke-agreement/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/33 "2015-04-03T03:32:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The only negotiation towards peace that has no element of risk is the unconditional surrender. That has an element of risk; you never know what the enemy might do with it. That was (one reason, apart from Emperor-worship and national chauvinism) why Japan was so reluctant to unconditionally surrender to the Allies – for all they knew, the Allied troops might sweep through the Home Islands in an orgy of rape, looting and slaughter. The Japanese knew all about such behavior by conquerors, having done it themselves in Nanjing, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/34 "2015-04-03T03:36:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Is this what the neocons have now become? No, it is what they always were. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/35 "2015-04-03T03:39:11Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Leave the negotiations, let the sanctions continue to bleed them dry, let them come to you, and secure a solid deal. > > Obama wimped out, got conned by the Iranians, and settled for a meaningless deal in the end. :dubious: [Waitaminnit, now.](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/03/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-talks.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) > [@](#): > > According to European officials, roughly 5,000 centrifuges will remain spinning enriched uranium at the main nuclear site at Natanz, about half the number currently running. The giant underground enrichment site at Fordo — which Israeli and some American officials fear is impervious to bombing — will be partly converted to advanced nuclear research and the production of medical isotopes. Foreign scientists will be present. There will be no fissile material present that could be used to make a bomb. > > A major reactor at Arak, which officials feared could produce plutonium, would operate on a limited basis that would not provide enough fuel for a bomb. > > In return, the European Union and the United States would begin to lift sanctions, as Iran complied. At a news conference after the announcement, Mr. Zarif said that essentially all sanctions would be lifted after the final agreement is signed. How is that not a “solid deal”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/36 "2015-04-03T03:40:20Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > [That didn’t take long…](http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-accuses-u-s-of-lying-about-new-nuke-agreement/) That’s Freebeacon; don’t believe it until confirmed by a credible source. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/37 "2015-04-03T03:45:51Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > [That didn’t take long…](http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-accuses-u-s-of-lying-about-new-nuke-agreement/) _ **What** _ didn’t take long? For you to find a right-wing rag that prides itself on publishing bogus “news” that for some mysterious reason is reported nowhere else, and that’s been condemned by legitimate media as debasing journalism? It cites the Iranian foreign minister as accusing the US of “lying” about the framework agreement via Twitter, but in fact [his Twitter log](https://twitter.com/jzarif) has no such accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/38 "2015-04-03T03:54:38Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Is this what the neocons have now become? I truly fear for the future of this world if a Republican president is elected in the present political climate. It’s not going to be about conservative fiscal policies, or negotiating peaceful treaties – it’s going to be about where the bombs fly. …and abortion, don’t forget abortion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/39 "2015-04-03T04:03:54Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > …and abortion, don’t forget abortion. Well, that was never a neocon issue. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/40 "2015-04-03T04:11:56Z")
Exactly how significant would a U.S. only sanction be? Iran would be able to sell all its oil–the U.S. has only been a small market for Iranian oil anyway. The U.S. has certain technological monopolies–but not the many anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=3)