# Agreement for framework for Iran nuclear deal reached **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648 "2015-04-02T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/401 "2015-04-16T22:40:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If their intentions were honorable, their support for terrorism would be on the table. Pot, kettle. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/402 "2015-04-16T22:43:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If their intentions were honorable, their support for terrorism would be on the table. No, that’s just some nonsense you’re saying because you’re shifting the goalposts. We’re trying to fix problem X. Throwing problem Z in at the same time as a condition isn’t an intelligent way to solve the problem. Especially when if we reach an agreement, Iran would come more into the international community, and that would likely help with problem Z. Notice that I point out that you’re wrong, and how, without calling you a traitor that wants Americans to die. If you have facts and reality on your side, you don’t need to succumb to that sort of rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/403 "2015-04-16T22:50:06Z")
Note that I didn’t say they had to renounce terrorism. While I’d like it to be on the table, I do recognize that this is about nukes, much as the SALT talks were about nukes and not Soviet oppression of Jews. I cited their support for militant networks around the world as evidence that their intentions are not peaceful. Their networks are limited only by Iran’s rational fear of retaliation. Build a nuke, and they believe(incorrectly) that we wouldn’t retaliate if they went too far. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/404 "2015-04-16T22:56:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Note that I didn’t say they had to renounce terrorism. While I’d like it to be on the table, I do recognize that this is about nukes, much as the SALT talks were about nukes and not Soviet oppression of Jews. > > I cited their support for militant networks around the world as evidence that their intentions are not peaceful. Their networks are limited only by Iran’s rational fear of retaliation. Build a nuke, and they believe(incorrectly) that we wouldn’t retaliate if they went too far. There could be other things they want more than a nuke – certain types of economic engagement, for example. It’s unrealistic and lazy to infantilize their motivations to purely (or mainly) causing death and destruction (not that this excuses any abuses). I still think it’s entirely possible that they are using a nuclear program purely as a bargaining chip to kill the sanctions. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/405 "2015-04-16T23:03:23Z")
Or, they want nukes and want the sanctions gone. They can actually have both, or at the very least, fewer sanctions and nukes. Won’t take long to find out though. Historically, when countries choose to give up their programs, they give up their programs. There’s no foot-dragging. We’ll know whether Iran is acting in good faith if they fully implement the agreement without any games. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/406 "2015-04-16T23:06:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Or, they want nukes and want the sanctions gone. They can actually have both, or at the very least, fewer sanctions and nukes. Not sure how, unless this is just another “Obama = weak” shot. > [@](#): > > Won’t take long to find out though. Historically, when countries choose to give up their programs, they give up their programs. There’s no foot-dragging. We’ll know whether Iran is acting in good faith if they fully implement the agreement without any games. We’ll see. Any good deal will have the precautions/inspections to make sure. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/407 "2015-04-16T23:15:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not sure how, unless this is just another “Obama = weak” shot. No, it’s a shot at Russia and China, who seem to be giving up on the sanctions regime unconditionally. > [@](#): > > We’ll see. Any good deal will have the precautions/inspections to make sure. Glad to see you draw a line in the sand. But if inspectors don’t get full cooperation, that’s pretty much an admission they are hiding illicit activities. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/408 "2015-04-16T23:16:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But if inspectors don’t get full cooperation, that’s pretty much an admission they are hiding illicit activities. Just like Iraq with the WMDs, right? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/409 "2015-04-16T23:23:40Z")
Saddam wanted IRan to think he still had WMD. Who does Iran want to make think they are still working on nukes? Nobody. In fact they’ve been protesting that they’ve had a peaceful program all along. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/410 "2015-04-16T23:23:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just like Iraq with the WMDs, right? Just call whatever it is you want to hang on the other party an “unknown unknown”. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/411 "2015-04-16T23:29:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’ll see. Any good deal will have the precautions/inspections to make sure. Can you “make sure” if you’re not allowed to inspect any military sites? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/412 "2015-04-16T23:30:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Can you “make sure” if you’re not allowed to inspect any military sites? Depends on the details. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/413 "2015-04-16T23:31:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Depends on the details. Detail: you are not allowed at any military sites. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/414 "2015-04-16T23:32:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Detail: you are not allowed at any military sites. What are “military sites”? How big are they? Do they have large underground facilities? What is the specific verbiage of the agreement? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/415 "2015-04-16T23:58:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What are “military sites”? How big are they? Do they have large underground facilities? What is the specific verbiage of the agreement? All military sites. You know - sites that the military runs. All over Iran. You don’t know how big. But no matter how big you have no access to them. You don’t know what underground facilities they have - you have no access to them. The verbiage is: you have no access to military sites. [http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/04/11/Inspections-critical-to-Iran-nuclear-deal-U-S-.html](http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/04/11/Inspections-critical-to-Iran-nuclear-deal-U-S-.html) Iran will not allow the inspection of its military sites as part of a possible agreement with the world powers on the country’s nuclear program, Iranian Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces said Friday, according to the state-run Fars news agency. “The armed forces will not allow anyone to enter [Iran’s] military sites,” Maj. Gen. Hassan Fairuz Abadi said. > **[Iran’s Supreme Leader Says No Deal If Inspectors Want Access To Military Sites](https://dailycaller.com/2015/04/09/irans-supreme-leader-says-no-deal-if-inspectors-want-access-to-military-sites/)** > > Ayatollah Ali Khamenei stated on Thursday that Iran won’t sign off on any nuclear agreement unless military sites are declared off limits to foreign inspectors. One of the military sites, Parchin, has not been mentioned in the international framework at all in distinct contrast to sites like Fordow and Natanz, which are widely discussed in the arrangement. **It is widely suspected that Parchin would host Iran’s weaponization efforts, making it a key site for inspection.** ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/416 "2015-04-17T00:04:43Z")
So, you think Iran is going to be building nuclear weapons, using fissile radioactive materials, in the same location that they’ll be housing troops, ordnance, vehicles, other material, etc. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/417 "2015-04-17T00:05:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > All military sites. You know - sites that the military runs. All over Iran. You don’t know how big. But no matter how big you have no access to them. You don’t know what underground facilities they have - you have no access to them. The verbiage is: you have no access to military sites. > > [http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/04/11/Inspections-critical-to-Iran-nuclear-deal-U-S-.html](http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/04/11/Inspections-critical-to-Iran-nuclear-deal-U-S-.html) > > Iran will not allow the inspection of its military sites as part of a possible agreement with the world powers on the country’s nuclear program, Iranian Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces said Friday, according to the state-run Fars news agency. > > “The armed forces will not allow anyone to enter [Iran’s] military sites,” Maj. Gen. Hassan Fairuz Abadi said. > > [Iran’s Supreme Leader Says No Deal If Inspectors Want Access To Military Sites | The Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/09/irans-supreme-leader-says-no-deal-if-inspectors-want-access-to-military-sites/) > > One of the military sites, Parchin, has not been mentioned in the international framework at all in distinct contrast to sites like Fordow and Natanz, which are widely discussed in the arrangement. **It is widely suspected that Parchin would host Iran’s weaponization efforts, making it a key site for inspection.** If nuclear inspectors aren’t allowed to inspect nuclear sites, then that would be bad. If they are allowed, then that would be good. I’m rooting for a good agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/418 "2015-04-17T01:12:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If nuclear inspectors aren’t allowed to inspect nuclear sites, then that would be bad. If they are allowed, then that would be good. I’m rooting for a good agreement. And if they are not allowed to inspect military sites, how do they know if they are nuclear sites or not? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/419 "2015-04-17T01:18:17Z")
It would be unrealistic to expect Iran to consent to inspections pretty much anywhere. Theoretically they could have a nuclear program hidden under a Wal-mart. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/420 "2015-04-17T01:35:12Z")
nm. stinking pad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=22)