# Agreement for framework for Iran nuclear deal reached **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648 "2015-04-02T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/521 "2015-04-21T22:42:59Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > I said “wonder,” you said “definitely.” So I was just wondering if you knew something that I don’t. I know something that you do as well. The whole history of the administration. From “you can keep your doctor you have” and “you can keep your current plan” to “I am president, I am not king. I can’t do these things just by myself.” when asked about doing immigration changes by executive orders to “We have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas” to “I didn’t raise taxes once” to ““The Fast and Furious program was a field-initiated program begun under the previous administration” to “Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency” etc. etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/522 "2015-04-21T22:44:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A deal involves us getting something in return for something. If we get nothing substantial in return for something(like $50 billion) then we got taken. A deal involves Iran staying out of the nuclear club; that is all. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/523 "2015-04-21T22:45:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No one wants war, but neither should anyone want ANYTHING but war, including an Iranian nuke. No, a war with Iran would be worse than letting Iran have the bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/524 "2015-04-21T22:55:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, a war with Iran would be worse than letting Iran have the bomb. That’s not what Obama has been stating, repeatedly, for many years. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/525 "2015-04-21T22:59:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s not what Obama has been stating, repeatedly, for many years. I never said he’s right about everything. But on this issue he’s certainly righter than the hawks and neocons. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/526 "2015-04-21T23:03:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > A deal involves Iran staying out of the nuclear club; that is all. Yes. I agree completely. I just want to make sure that’s the actual policy of this administration and not just what they say while they make a deal that concedes a bomb. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/527 "2015-04-21T23:20:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yes. I agree completely. I just want to make sure that’s the actual policy of this administration and not just what they say while they make a deal that concedes a bomb. But that is not worth any price. A war with Iran would be worse than letting Iran have the bomb. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/528 "2015-04-21T23:52:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I know something that you do as well. The whole history of the administration. From “you can keep your doctor you have” and “you can keep your current plan” to “I am president, I am not king. I can’t do these things just by myself.” when asked about doing immigration changes by executive orders to “We have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas” to “I didn’t raise taxes once” to ““The Fast and Furious program was a field-initiated program begun under the previous administration” to “Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency” etc. etc. etc. According to Politifact, Obama is far more honest than most Republicans (and most other Democrats, for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/529 "2015-04-22T00:01:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > According to Politifact, Obama is far more honest than most Republicans (and most other Democrats, for that matter). This [Politifact](http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/12/27/in-2008-politifacts-2013-lie-of-the-year-that-you-could-keep-your-health-plan-under-obamacare-it-rated-true/)? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/530 "2015-04-22T00:04:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > This [Politifact](http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/12/27/in-2008-politifacts-2013-lie-of-the-year-that-you-could-keep-your-health-plan-under-obamacare-it-rated-true/)? Yep, that one (note that the article you linked was written by a prominent Romney advisor). The one that tries to honestly evaluate whether politicians are telling the truth or not. And Obama has been far less dishonest than most Republicans, in aggregate. I know reality has a liberal bias, but that doesn’t mean that Politifact does. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/531 "2015-04-22T00:09:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yep, that one (note that the article you linked was written by a prominent Romney advisor). The one that tries to honestly evaluate whether politicians are telling the truth or not. According to that article, the “honestly evaluate” is very questionable. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/532 "2015-04-22T00:10:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > According to that article, the “honestly evaluate” is very questionable. Hint: Romney advisor Avik Roy may not be “honestly evaluating” Politifact. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/533 "2015-04-22T00:11:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hint: Romney advisor Avik Roy may not be “honestly evaluating” Politifact. I don’t look at the author. I look at the content. And the content shows that Politifact is far from being honest. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/534 "2015-04-22T00:17:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t look at the author. I look at the content. And the content shows that Politifact is far from being honest. No it doesn’t. The article was mostly crap. If you want to “look at the content”, look at Politifact’s content – it’s rated hundreds of statements. Compare what they say about Obama (or Pelosi, who rates far lower) to various Republicans like Boehner, McConnell, Romney, and McCain. I’m sure we’re not going to agree on this, so I’ll just point out that I cited a big fact-checking organization that says Obama is more honest than most Republicans, and you cited _nothing_ for your assertion that Obama is always lying. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/535 "2015-04-22T00:22:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No it doesn’t. The article was mostly crap. Because you say so. And your opinion is what matters (for me). Right? > [@](#): > > so I’ll just point out that I cited a big fact-checking organization And I cited a fact checker that showed that the fact-checking organization lied and distorted to cover up the lie. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/536 "2015-04-22T01:20:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because you say so. And your opinion is what matters (for me). Right? > And I cited a fact checker that showed that the fact-checking organization lied and distorted to cover up the lie. They didn’t lie. The “fact checker” you’re placing your faith in - surely for no more reason than he’s criticizing Obama and you’ll embrace literally anything that does the same - is extremely dishonest and here’s why. Obama came up with a health care plan as part of his platform in 2008. In 2009, Congress began drafting legislation, which included some Republican amendments (such as requiring members of Congress to go on health care exchanges), which was later enacted. Obama is not a dictator who directs what is included in every bill drafted in Congress. When Politifact wrote the “true” article, it was comparing Obama’s speeches to his written campaign platform as it stood in 2008. There is no way a human could take an Obama speech in September 2008 and conclude that in early 2013 that the law did not live up to a campaign promise. The only rational comparison in 2008 is between what Obama said and what his 2008 proposal was, and there’s no reason to believe he was lying about anything at that time. By 2013, as it became well known to everyone that the law cut off certain health plans, Politifact named Obama’s statement the “lie of the year.” How on earth is Politifact misleading anyone? It is clear that because the word “Obama” exists in this topic, you cannot evaluate this in a rational manner. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/537 "2015-04-22T01:26:28Z")
Actually, he lied about the individual mandate. It was a pretty cynical ploy to use that against Clinton. He’s way too smart and had too many good economic advisors to not know that a mandate was necessary. Then he “reluctantly” concluded after winning that a mandate was indeed necessary. But then it’s hard to take such defenses of Obama seriously when these same people actually think that Hillary Clinton is honest. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/538 "2015-04-22T01:28:49Z")
It’s hard to take any political commentary seriously from those who believed that pollsters were lying about Mitt Romney not leading the 2012 election. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/539 "2015-04-22T01:31:16Z")
Not nearly as glib as you think. Being wrong because you made dumb assumptions is not the same as pointing out a lie. We have the facts on these: Obama said something, something else happened and it was completely under his control. And on the Iran deal, he’s said pretty clearly what is in the framework. If the deal is nowhere near the framework, then he lied. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/540 "2015-04-22T01:45:16Z")
Gotta say,\* Politifact\* is kinda shaky these days, from any political perspective. Sometimes, their reporting and analysis is keen and insightful, other times, i wonder than anyone pays them any attention at all! And its not even that they are partisan, I think their problem is the opposite, they are so determined to present themselves as the non-partisan source, they tie themselves in knots to avoid an opinion. Death by High Broderism. _Feh!_ as they say in Lubbock… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=28)