# Agreement for framework for Iran nuclear deal reached **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648 "2015-04-02T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/41 "2015-04-03T05:38:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, that was never a neocon issue. Really? Could’ve fooled me… > [@New York Magazine](#): > > Abortion is a powder keg for conservatives not just because it’s a moral issue about which people feel strongly but because it fuels a kind of class warfare within the conservative coalition. As Bill Kristol, the editor of the Weekly Standard puts it, the issue separates “Northeast yuppie libertarian Republicans from lower-middle-class religious conservatives.” The former “just don’t understand how you could be pro-life and be a decent human being.” The latter, Kristol says, “don’t think that being pro-choice is a mistake or unfortunate; they think it is a sign of moral degeneracy.” > [@The Politics of Values](#): > > This change within the congressional mentality as well as the thinking in the White House brought an intensified values-oriented approach to the politics of abortion. Vice President Dick Cheney articulated it when he spoke before the National Right to Life Committee in 2004… GWB was all over the place on abortion, personally, but that didn’t stop him from flapping his gums in support of the anti-abortion position whenever needed. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/42 "2015-04-03T07:28:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pretty sure the country that’s under crippling economic sanctions is more eager to reach a deal than the dozens of countries that aren’t. I read a study that sanctions effects only last a few years…I think it was 5 years. After which the effected country makes the needed adjustments to function. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/43 "2015-04-03T09:51:54Z")
[Here’s](http://www.vox.com/2015/4/2/8337347/iran-deal-good) a very positive and detailed article about the deal. A few snippets: > [@](#): > > \*Iran will give up about 14,000 of its 20,000 centrifuges > \*Iran will give up all but its most rudimentary, outdated centrifuges: its first-generation IR-1s, knock-offs of 1970s European models, are all it gets to keep. It will not be allowed to build or develop newer models. > \*Iran will give up 97 percent of its enriched uranium: it will hold on to only 300 kilograms of its 10,000 kilogram stockpile in its current form. > \*Iran will destroy or export the core of its plutonium plant at Arak, and replace it with a new core than cannot produce weapons-grade plutonium. It will ship out all spent nuclear fuel. > > Iran would simply not have much of its nuclear program left after all this. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/44 "2015-04-03T10:03:28Z")
Here’s the funny thing about when rogue countries break a deal. rather than us simply re-imposing sanctions, there are calls for new negotiations, patience, yada yada, and the end result is that we cut them slack. Not only do we have more incentive to make a deal, we also have more incentive to act like the deal is working whether it is or isn’t. Ultimately, Congress will decide when sanctions get reimposed. They have the votes to override a veto. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/45 "2015-04-03T10:12:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s the funny thing about when rogue countries break a deal. rather than us simply re-imposing sanctions, there are calls for new negotiations, patience, yada yada, and the end result is that we cut them slack. Not only do we have more incentive to make a deal, we also have more incentive to act like the deal is working whether it is or isn’t. Maybe Iran will break the deal, but we don’t know that yet. I think it’s entirely possible that the main reason for their nuclear program was to have something to trade in order to end sanctions, and Iran might not be particularly interested in actually developing nuclear weapons. We shall see. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, Congress will decide when sanctions get reimposed. They have the votes to override a veto. I doubt they have the votes to override a veto if the choice is “go along with a decent deal that is supported by most of Europe” or “reject a decent deal”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/46 "2015-04-03T10:19:23Z")
Europe likes it. Guess who doesn’t? The Israelis AND the Arabs, who probably understand Iran a bit better than the West, where we have a history of delusion when making deals. But hey, we brought the Israelis and Arabs together, that’s something. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/47 "2015-04-03T10:23:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Europe likes it. Guess who doesn’t? The Israelis AND the Arabs, who probably understand Iran a bit better than the West, where we have a history of delusion when making deals. But hey, we brought the Israelis and Arabs together, that’s something. We know Netanyahu doesn’t like it – that doesn’t tell me much, considering his wild swings of opinion and irrational (and often factually false) statements over the last several months. As far as Arabs, I haven’t seen any negative responses that were close to as over-the-top as Netanyahu’s, but that doesn’t mean they’re not there. If Iran sticks with the deal, then any of those concerns won’t bear out. If they don’t, then we’ll be in no worse position than we were yesterday. I think a military solution could only make things worse – there’s no way to prevent Iran getting nuclear weapons in the long run if they really want it unless we invade with hundreds of thousands of troops and occupy indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/48 "2015-04-03T10:38:23Z")
Funny, I thought the Obama administration was doing quite well, between sanctions and sabotage. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/49 "2015-04-03T10:49:47Z")
In the short term, sure (not that we know if Iran actually really wants nuclear weapons). In the long term, there’s no way other than full occupation. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/50 "2015-04-03T10:57:44Z")
This is not a permanent deal. It is also just a short term solution. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/51 "2015-04-03T11:32:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s the funny thing about when rogue countries break a deal. rather than us simply re-imposing sanctions, there are calls for new negotiations, patience, yada yada, and the end result is that we cut them slack. Do you have actual examples of this? Because it sounds like yet another opinion that you can’t back up. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/52 "2015-04-03T13:23:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This is not a permanent deal. It is also just a short term solution. Along with ongoing diplomacy and international trade, it could be a permanent solution. We shall see. I’m much more optimistic than without such a framework. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/53 "2015-04-03T13:26:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe Iran will break the deal, but we don’t know that yet. I think it’s entirely possible that the main reason for their nuclear program was to have something to trade in order to end sanctions… That doesn’t make much sense to me since the sanctions only came about because of the nuclear program in the first place. Didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/54 "2015-04-03T13:36:20Z")
We tried to use sanctions with North Korea after President Bush walked away from negotiations and they had a bomb within 2 years. At least with this deal the IAEA will get to inspect all their sites and they will lose the majority of their stockpile. The only other solution I see to this problem is that Israel bomb their facilities as they did in Syria and Iraq. I really do not think it is within the US national interest to undertake this act, but I can’t really judge if it is worth it for Israel. The only problem is that I think their facilities are hardened to the point that a strategic bombing would be ineffective. All of that aside, it is really clear that the Republicans do not have a solution to this problem and just want to use it as a political football. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/55 "2015-04-03T13:50:20Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > All of that aside, it is really clear that the Republicans do not have a solution to this problem and just want to use it as a political football. That’s simply not true. Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran! ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/56 "2015-04-03T14:06:12Z")
From the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/irans-remarkable-achievement/2015/04/03/365e263c-d994-11e4-8103-fa84725dbf9d_story.html) > [@](#): > > For all the praise Obama is claiming, the Iranian regime counts the most remarkable achievement. It has engaged in nuclear negotiations with the United States while actively engaged in a regional conflict against American friends and proxies. Since Obama has prioritized the nuclear negotiations — the only alternative to which, he constantly reminds us, is war — other concessions have seemed small in comparison. Opposition to Bashar al-Assad has become muted, even as he crosses every blood-red line of brutality, to avoid disrupting relations with his Iranian patron. Human rights issues within Iran have become secondary to avoid giving offense. Obama has sometimes seemed more tolerant and empathetic toward Iranian positions than those of allies and partners such as Israel. This pretty much reflects my own view. Iran is the real winner here. Obama was so desperate to gain some, any, foreign policy achievement that he’s allowed himself to be blindsided, chivvying his allies into the same.And of course the country that has the greatest amount at stake here (its very existence) was sidelined by Obama, as an obstacle to his ‘victory’. Iran as a state remains committed to the total destruction of Israel. Obama has put them one step nearer to that goal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/57 "2015-04-03T14:13:24Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > From the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/irans-remarkable-achievement/2015/04/03/365e263c-d994-11e4-8103-fa84725dbf9d_story.html) > > This pretty much reflects my own view. Iran is the real winner here. Obama was so desperate to gain some, any, foreign policy achievement that he’s allowed himself to be blindsided, chivvying his allies into the same.And of course the country that has the greatest amount at stake here (its very existence) was sidelined by Obama, as an obstacle to his ‘victory’. > > Iran as a state remains committed to the total destruction of Israel. Obama has put them one step nearer to that goal. That’s not “from the Washington Post”. That’s from “Michael Gerson”, a noted conservative commentator. He’s the conservative “point” on the PBS NewsHour’s Friday edition “Point counter Point”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/58 "2015-04-03T14:15:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s the funny thing about when rogue countries break a deal. rather than us simply re-imposing sanctions, there are calls for new negotiations, patience, yada yada, and the end result is that we cut them slack. What examples are you thinking of? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/59 "2015-04-03T14:52:32Z")
And now [Scott Walker](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/04/02/scott-walker-ill-blow-up-any-iran-deal-no-matter-what-our-european-allies-think/) shows he cannot be trusted with any real responsibility: > [@](#): > > Walker had previously said that he would undo any deal with Iran on his first day. But radio host Charlie Sykes asked him a good follow-up question, and this happened: > > SYKES: You have said that you would cancel any Iranian deal the Obama administration makes. Now would you cancel that even if our trading partners did not want to reimpose the sanctions? > > WALKER: Absolutely. If I ultimately choose to run, and if I’m honored to be elected by the people of this country, I will pull back on that on January 20, 2017 Peter Juul’s commentary: > [@](#): > > “The big questions would be, How would Europeans and Iranians react? It’s hard to believe that the Iranians would stick to their end of the deal. That would leave Iran open to take their nuclear program as far as they want. > > “The Europeans would probably try to keep their portion of the deal in place and try to salvage it. This would place the burden of having blown up the deal on us. This would be particularly ironic, considering that a major Republican and conservative talking point is that the Obama administration is breaking faith with our allies. We would be alienating and breaking faith with our European allies right out of the gate. You’d be irreparably damaging our transatlantic relationships for however long Scott Walker were in office. **adaher** , what was that about “when rogue countries break a deal”? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/60 "2015-04-03T15:33:42Z")
Ugh. What an absolutely stupid thing to say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=4)