# Agreement for framework for Iran nuclear deal reached **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648 "2015-04-02T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/61 "2015-04-03T15:56:32Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > The only other solution I see to this problem is that Israel bomb their facilities as they did in Syria and Iraq. That scenario has been wargamed several times. It always ends in a general regional war and nobody can see a clear way to any other outcome. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/62 "2015-04-03T16:02:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s not “from the Washington Post”. That’s from “Michael Gerson”, a noted conservative commentator. He’s the conservative “point” on the PBS NewsHour’s Friday edition “Point counter Point”. _Shields and Brooks_. And only when Brooks is busy getting a bikini wax. Mr. Gerson’s resume includes being on GeeDub’s White House Iraq Group and, according to Wiki, “…a leading figure of the evangelical intelligentsia movement…”. And no, I have no idea what that means, nor the least curiosity to find out. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/63 "2015-04-03T16:10:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Ugh. What an absolutely stupid thing to say. Get used to it. It is by no means the stupidest thing you will hear from a base-pandering Pub presidential contender during the coming primary campaigns. It is not even the stupidest thing said by such this week. E.g., Mike Huckabee: [Gay-rights activists want an America with no churches.](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/02/mike_huckabee_discovers_secret_gay_conspiracy_to_close_all_churches/) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/64 "2015-04-03T16:25:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That doesn’t make much sense to me since the sanctions only came about because of the nuclear program in the first place. Didn’t they? There have been sanctions of various sorts in place for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/65 "2015-04-03T16:41:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s the funny thing about when rogue countries break a deal. rather than us simply re-imposing sanctions, there are calls for new negotiations, patience, yada yada, and the end result is that we cut them slack. Not only do we have more incentive to make a deal, we also have more incentive to act like the deal is working whether it is or isn’t. So you would oppose dropping the sanctions because Iran could always back out of the deal? This is true for any deal we might make. We generally impose sanctions with the idea that they will provide an incentive to take particular actions that will allow them to be lifted. If they will never be lifted under any circumstances, than why did we impose them in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/66 "2015-04-03T17:27:38Z")
This agreement is a terrific piece of news and another reason why Obama’s foreign policy is light-years ahead of what conventional Republican wisdom would call for. Hell, even if it doesn’t work out, it would still be great, as it would show the extent to which talks can be made. There’s literally no downside to these talks and agreement. The US isn’t really giving anything up, we don’t really have to do anything substantial for years, and there’s monitoring in place for up to 25 years. Literally no downside. Its another victory for the good guys ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/67 "2015-04-03T17:44:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > _Shields and Brooks_. And only when Brooks is busy getting a bikini wax. Mr. Gerson’s resume includes being on GeeDub’s White House Iraq Group and, according to Wiki, “…a leading figure of the evangelical intelligentsia movement…”. And no, I have no idea what that means, nor the least curiosity to find out. Yes, and formerly _Shields and Gigot_. I’d tell you what I know about the Evangelical Intelligentsia Group, but you’d have to convert first. And the initiation rites are brutal! Not the least of which is the removal of part of your brain… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/68 "2015-04-03T17:56:41Z")
Fuckin’ love Shields. Besides a sharp mind and a keen sense of humor (in a “Dad joke” sort of way…), he is also frumpy. I trust frumpy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/69 "2015-04-03T18:05:39Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > So you would oppose dropping the sanctions because Iran could always back out of the deal? This is true for any deal we might make. We generally impose sanctions with the idea that they will provide an incentive to take particular actions that will allow them to be lifted. If they will never be lifted under any circumstances, than why did we impose them in the first place? Some sanctions, e.g., those on Cuba or Apartheid-era South Africa, are enacted with the intent of forcing regime change and presumably will be lifted only under that circumstance. But I don’t think the sanctions on Iran are of that nature, though some Pubs appear to be assuming that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/70 "2015-04-03T20:14:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > . . . I think a military solution could only make things worse – there’s no way to prevent Iran getting nuclear weapons in the long run if they really want it unless we invade with hundreds of thousands of troops and occupy indefinitely. Actually, Iran is particularly susceptible to infrastructure bombing. We could kill their water and electric distribution systems with only a few conventional bombing strikes. (Los Angeles could be killed in exactly the same way. Zap the water and power lines coming in – some of which travel for hundreds of miles through empty desert – and the place is a dead zone.) By shutting Iran’s civilization down completely, we could cut off their nuclear power research. We also could have nuked Hanoi… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/71 "2015-04-03T20:31:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Actually, Iran is particularly susceptible to infrastructure bombing. We could kill their water and electric distribution systems with only a few conventional bombing strikes. But that’s just a temporary solution, and would probably only reinforce their perceived need for a deterrent. Eventually they’d get it, if they want it badly enough. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/72 "2015-04-03T20:35:52Z")
The neo-cons sing a seductive song, a song of peace. For this bright but fading moment of opportunity, America can _impose_ peace. The threat of nuclear war demands such bold action, and we are the only nation that can do it, can wear the sheriff’s badge and make it stick. Not like those cringing Chamberlains at the so-called “United Nations”. No sensible nation will resist us, and if they do, it won’t be for long! A glowing vision of the Citadel on the Hill and the chance to make the world safe for business! Democracy. Same difference, These are, of course, not foolish men, these are hard-headed, no-nonsense realists with a clear eye to the cold truth. (Didja ever notice that that is how almost all cynics describe themselves?) Other victims of testosterone poisoning will not be surprised to learn that they are almost unanimously men. All of this supports my maturing opinion that we should just get out of the way and let the soft guys with the wobbly bits run things. Maybe they can’t do better, but they could hardly do worse. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/73 "2015-04-03T20:44:56Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Actually, Iran is particularly susceptible to infrastructure bombing. We could kill their water and electric distribution systems with only a few conventional bombing strikes. > > (Los Angeles could be killed in exactly the same way. Zap the water and power lines coming in – some of which travel for hundreds of miles through empty desert – and the place is a dead zone.) > > By shutting Iran’s civilization down completely, we could cut off their nuclear power research. We also could have nuked Hanoi… Bombing water supplies probably serves no military purpose and would therefore be regarded as a war crime. It’s pretty clear that countries aren’t supposed to try to kill civilians for no battlefield advantage. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/74 "2015-04-03T20:51:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Other victims of testosterone poisoning will not be surprised to learn that they are almost unanimously men. All of this supports my maturing opinion that we should just get out of the way and let the soft guys with the wobbly bits run things. Maybe they can’t do better, but they could hardly do worse. Or, maybe we could let the women run things . . . Nah. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/75 "2015-04-03T21:47:40Z")
[http://www.foreignpolicyi.org/content/fpi-analysis-unanswered-questions-pervade-iran-nuclear-framework](http://www.foreignpolicyi.org/content/fpi-analysis-unanswered-questions-pervade-iran-nuclear-framework) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/76 "2015-04-03T21:52:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.foreignpolicyi.org/content/fpi-analysis-unanswered-questions-pervade-iran-nuclear-framework](http://www.foreignpolicyi.org/content/fpi-analysis-unanswered-questions-pervade-iran-nuclear-framework) That should be dismissed; [Foreign Policy Initiative](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Policy_Initiative) is a neocon think-tank, founded by William “Always Disastrously Wrong About Everything” Kristol. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/77 "2015-04-03T21:54:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That should be dismissed; [Foreign Policy Initiative](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Policy_Initiative) is a neocon think-tank, founded by William “Always Disastrously Wrong About Everything” Kristol. Can you point to any inaccuracies in the article? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/78 "2015-04-03T22:11:35Z")
Would you like to share some of your thoughts about the article, or are we simply posting links from here on out? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/79 "2015-04-03T22:19:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Would you like to share some of your thoughts about the article, or are we simply posting links from here on out? The article documents, pretty thoroughly, the nebulousness of the “framework” - basically it can mean whatever the person looking at it wants it to mean, with no specifics. Just one example: Obama and Kerry keep emphasizing the “unprecedented” level of inspections. Yet the framework refers to “regular” inspections - which seems to imply scheduled and not-surprise inspections. What good is that? Also, Iranians have always refused to allow inspectors on “military” sites. Again, what good are inspections if some sites are off-limits? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/80 "2015-04-03T22:41:08Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > From the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/irans-remarkable-achievement/2015/04/03/365e263c-d994-11e4-8103-fa84725dbf9d_story.html) > > This pretty much reflects my own view. Iran is the real winner here. Obama was so desperate to gain some, any, foreign policy achievement that he’s allowed himself to be blindsided, chivvying his allies into the same.And of course the country that has the greatest amount at stake here (its very existence) was sidelined by Obama, as an obstacle to his ‘victory’. > > Iran as a state remains committed to the total destruction of Israel. Obama has put them one step nearer to that goal. Outside the conservative bubble Obama is regarded as a very effective president in terms of foreign policy. Adding yet another policy success isn’t really all that meaningful to his domestic politics. He’s never going to convince the people who think he’s bad at foreign policy otherwise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=5)