# Agreement for framework for Iran nuclear deal reached **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648 "2015-04-02T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/141 "2015-04-06T14:17:19Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Iran has been fucked with by the US ever since they overthrew our puppet dictator. Oh, it goes back further than that, to the CIA’s overthrow of their elected leader, Mossadegh, in 1951 and reinstallation of the Pahlavi regime. Gotta keep the oil supply secure under Anglo-American control, yanno. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/142 "2015-04-06T14:20:53Z")
Not to mention US support for the invasion and occupation of Iran in WW2. Why do you think the conference of 1943 was in Tehran? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/143 "2015-04-06T15:35:06Z")
It’s the only place Stalin would agree to meet that wasn’t within the boundaries for the Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/144 "2015-04-06T15:40:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What anti-Iranian terrorists? The only ones I can think of are ISIS, who are really no threat to Iran, and the U.S. does not fund or supply them. I have not heard of any anti-government terrorists at all operating inside Iran itself. [MEK](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Mujahedin_of_Iran). [Jundallah.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jundallah_(Iran)) Then, there was the whole Iran/Iraq war. Granted, this was a mess and was not a result of US actions in the region (unless you ascribe the rise of the Islamic state in Iran to the US support of the Shah of Iran), but we did heavily support Iraq through the whole period including internal groups like the MEK. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/145 "2015-04-06T15:52:03Z")
> [@](#): > > t’s the only place Stalin would agree to meet that wasn’t within the boundaries for the Soviet Union. What is harder? Dealing with a paranoid, or being one? ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/146 "2015-04-06T20:54:19Z")
I honestly don’t know if I’m remembering this correctly, but wasn’t the right wing contingent against the sanctions in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/147 "2015-04-06T22:02:10Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Actually, the real difference with North Korea is that Bush walked away from the deal just like Walker and others are promising to do. No, it’s worse than that; they are promising to unilaterally repudiate it on day one of the next Republican presidency after Iran, the United States, Russia, China, France, United Kingdom and Germany have all agreed to it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/148 "2015-04-07T03:47:29Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not to mention US support for the invasion and occupation of Iran in WW2. Why do you think the conference of 1943 was in Tehran? That was more the British and the Soviets, but yeah, that was the first time the Shah took power due to a western-backed coup. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/149 "2015-04-07T13:12:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, it’s worse than that; they are promising to unilaterally repudiate it on day one of the next Republican presidency after Iran, the United States, Russia, China, France, United Kingdom and Germany have all agreed to it. With enough AIPAC pressure it can be repudiated well before Obama leaves office. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/150 "2015-04-07T13:43:15Z")
And then what? There won’t be any negotiations after the U.S. scuttles the agreement. The other parties probably will lose patience with American petulence and who knows if they will continue sanctions; probably not. Iran will come out looking like one of the countries that kept its word in the negotiations, as opposed to the U.S. What is the Plan B? No opponent of the deal has come up with an even halfway realistic scenario. It’s always, “We should negotiate harder and get Iran to totally capitulate!” Either that, or we go to war. Those are not real options. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/151 "2015-04-07T13:44:58Z")
What we should have done is continue current policies, which had kept Iran from a bomb. But you do make a good point, our allies are lifting their sanctions. And as I said before, I doubt those sanctions are going back even if Iran reneges. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/152 "2015-04-07T13:45:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > With enough AIPAC pressure it can be repudiated well before Obama leaves office. That all comes down to how much Congress can do about it. No AIPAC pressure is going to sway the Administration on this. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/153 "2015-04-07T13:53:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I doubt those sanctions are going back even if Iran reneges. It’s more likely \*we \*will renege, innit? ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/154 "2015-04-07T13:56:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What we should have done is continue current policies, which had kept Iran from a bomb. But you do make a good point, our allies are lifting their sanctions. And as I said before, I doubt those sanctions are going back even if Iran reneges. Our current policies made it painful for Iran to pursue a bomb, but until the recent potential diplomatic breakthrough they did not prevent Iran from getting closer to a bomb. Hence the increase in centrifuges from something like 160 in 2003 to 22,000 today. Even if the existing sanctions could remain in place indefinitely, I don’t see how those prevent Iran from getting a bomb, unless they led to the collapse of the regime (not bloody likely). As others have said, the international sanctions regime that has been so effective against Iran doesn’t have time on its side. [Peter Beinart](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/alternatives-obama-iran-nuclear-deal-israel/389751/) goes into this point at length: > [@](#): > > China, in particular, has a history of strong economic ties to Iran, a massive thirst for oil, and little interest in doing America’s bidding in the Middle East. If the United States walks away from a deal that Beijing has endorsed, it’s only a matter of time until China imports large quantities of Iranian crude. Chinese impatience is already starting to show. Beijing imported 30 percent more oil from Iran in 2014 than it had in 2013. As the International Crisis Group’s Ali Vaez observes, “The high-water mark of international sanctions is already behind us.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/155 "2015-04-07T14:05:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s more likely \*we \*will renege, innit? We can’t renege. ONly the President has made a deal. Congress makes the laws in this country and can continue to legislate against Iran. If you don’t want them to do that, then they need to approve a treaty, which would then become law. Absent a treaty, it’s not binding law. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/156 "2015-04-07T14:12:11Z")
Use any word you like: renege, tank the agreement, blow up the talks, stand up for Netanyahu, strike a blow for war and justice: it all means that the deal negotiated by all the world’s leading powers doesn’t move forward because of the US. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/157 "2015-04-07T14:12:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We can’t renege. Better explain that to Walker and Cruz. > [@](#): > > ONly the President has made a deal. Congress makes the laws in this country and can continue to legislate against Iran…,.Absent a treaty, it’s not binding law. Tell us more about rogue nations and reliable negotiating partners and reneging. The subject seems fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/158 "2015-04-07T14:35:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Use any word you like: renege, tank the agreement, blow up the talks, stand up for Netanyahu, strike a blow for war and justice: it all means that the deal negotiated by all the world’s leading powers doesn’t move forward because of the US. Well, we are a nation of laws, and Presidents can’t make binding law. That’s Congress’ prerogative. So any nation negotiating with us knows that any agreement they make is dependent on Congress’ consent. Since so many of you made fun of Iran lecturing us about our system of government, I guess we can assume that Iran and our allies already know that Congress has not agreed to anything and does in fact have the power to say no if they want to. And it’s not “reneging” because they never agreed to this deal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/159 "2015-04-07T14:48:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Use any word you like: renege, tank the agreement, blow up the talks, stand up for Netanyahu, strike a blow for war and justice: it all means that the deal negotiated by all the world’s leading powers doesn’t move forward because of the US. Are we the only country on our negotiating side that has a legislative hurdle to pass in order to ratify this agreement? And what about Iran? Is their agreement binding with The Supreme Leader? Not trying to be snarky or anything. Honest questions. People tend to focus on the US as if we were the only player. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648/160 "2015-04-07T15:37:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, we are a nation of laws, and Presidents can’t make binding law. That’s Congress’ prerogative. So any nation negotiating with us knows that any agreement they make is dependent on Congress’ consent. Since so many of you made fun of Iran lecturing us about our system of government, I guess we can assume that Iran and our allies already know that Congress has not agreed to anything and does in fact have the power to say no if they want to. And it’s not “reneging” because they never agreed to this deal. You are missing my point entirely. Use any term you find comforting - let us say that the “US fails to ratify the agreement” - a excessively generous term for the congressional review that may occur. Everyone on Planet Earth is going to blame the United States for the deal not moving forward. Yes, it may be blocked due to our own constitutional processes. Yes, it may be fully legal that the agreement be blocked by the Congress. But in the end, all countries are unitary actors on the international stage, and it will be this country that fingers will point at for a deal not being achieved. You can say that other countries need to know the role of Congress, but the negotiation and application of agreements is primarily a unitary, national responsibility in the eyes of everyone else. It’s like if you win a contract from Corporation ABC, and the board of directors or partners then cancels the award. Sure, they can do that, but you’re still probably going to be pissed for acting in good faith only to have ABC not reciprocate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/agreement-for-framework-for-iran-nuclear-deal-reached/716648.md?page=9)